Wilderness Flares

V

Voo Voo

Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
5
Hi Guys,
Another new guy here.
Sorry to be a bother but I just joined a Search and Rescue unit here in Pierce County Washington and there are some required equipment items we need to carry in our vehicles. One of them is flares. I can run down to the local parts store and get road flares but another option is wilderness flares. I can find all kinds of reference to them but not where to get them.

Where can I at least find a store or web site to see what's available?

Thanks in advance!

Mitch "Voo Voo" Thomas
Pierce County Search & Rescue 4X4 Unit
 
Not sure what a wilderness flare is, but the local Wal-Mart I go to has marine flares. That may be the same thing as a wilderness flare.
 
You are not a bother, and thank you for joining SAR.
I have never been in SAR, but here is my opinion.

If they want you to have road flares in your car,
why not get exactly that? Get clarification.

[Some guys on these forums use road flares, and pieces
thereof, as super duper fire starters.]

I guess wilderness flares or marine flares that you shoot
into the air are still available. Marine or boating supply
would have them. For example, go to
http://www.defender.com/
and type "flare" in the search box. Anything that is US Coast
Guard approved is probably better quality; Canadian CG
may even be stricter, I am not sure.

There are newer options:
lasers, which do not start forest fires. Here is a good
article.
http://equipped.com/rescuelaser.htm
 
Welcome to the insanity. I'm with a team down in Clark County. I've seen and used a variety of flares in the past but can't think of one that specifically called itself a wilderness flare. There are a couple types of flares. There are handheld flares, there are projectile like flares and parachute flares. Handheld flares are like road flares (also called fuses by firefighters), and marine flares. The projectile flares are usually fired from a gun, or tube and are either one shot or reloadable. If you can find them the US military pencil flare gun works well. There is also one called a GyroJet, but I can't seem to find much on them. Parachute flares are either fired from a single shot tube or from a large 26.5mm gun. There is several varieties of smoke available. There is one other type of smoke/flare that is available. This is a smoke generator on one end and a handheld flare on the other. There are three models available. The older US Mk 13, the newer US Mk 124, and the Paynes/Wessex Mk 4.
The road flares are available just about any where. The marine handhelds, flare guns, single shot tubes and smoke are available from boating stores and places like Joe's and Sportsman Warehouse. The bigger guns are available from places like The Ammostore on the internet. I have no experince with this type of flare and gun so no idea what the quality is. Another source for flares and smoke are gun shows. Most of these are expired and maybe not be 100% reliable. The Mk 4 is available form a variety of commercial sorces but are expensive. Sometimes the Mk4 shows up at gun shows. I was fortunant to pick up a US Mk37 (I think) pencil flare gun a couple of years ago. The only problem with it is getting reloads. If you can score Mk 13s or Mk 124s from the government these are a great smoke/flare combo.
Hope this is useful and not overwhelming.
 
Parachute flares are either fired from a single shot tube or from a large 26.5mm gun.
Click to expand...
The American commercial parachute flare guns are 25mm. The nice thing about going with a 25mm is that there is ready available 12 gauge flare adapters, which give you the oppertunity to decide which flare type you want to use. West Marine sells these units for like $3.99.

26.5 is popular in Europe, that's what the military surplus launchers are. I have never seen anything other than military surplus flares or smoke rounds for them. If you do buy a 26.5mm pistol, my recommendation is the HK P2A1.
 
Dr. Mudd said:
Don't burn the woods down with your flares!
Click to expand...


Good point Mudd.

It is a serious issue in SAR flares and fire. I have seen it happen twice, both due to human error of the flare.

Some flares burn out and are cold enough when they hit the ground not to be an issue. That is if they are launched properly in the first place.:rolleyes:

I carry the Skyblazer X 4 marine flares (small, bright and lightweight) , 1 smoke and handheld flare combo on SAR missions. I find the small pen flares less than useful but thats me.

Skam
 
Skam

Which smoke/flare handheld do you use and have you found a resonable price for them?
 
James 61 said:
Skam

Which smoke/flare handheld do you use and have you found a resonable price for them?
Click to expand...

Its called an MK4 day night distress signal. They work great for giving wind to an inbound helo.

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/ssdns.html

As for cost they seem expensive but we dont pay. The police give us all outdated pyrotechnics turned in to use on missions or train with. This way they dont have to dipose of them. Win Win.

They are good years after they expire if stored properly.

Skam
 
I've seen this one. I fiqured it was the Mk4 since they seem to be the only one that is commercially available. Just can't stomach the cost and I have had no luck finding them at gun shows (and far cheaper) or for free. I know a few guys that were able to get the US Mk13 but I have not had any luck. I'm hoping that changes with the Mk13 being phased out for the Mk124.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I have a marine flare kit and the SAR guys didn't recommend them. Something about starting fires in the woods and such. I used the gyro jets in the Air Force and they seemed to work well, especially in heavy treed areas. As I said, the wilderness flares were an option so I though I'd ask here for some ideas. I'm going to head out to McChord tomorrow and see what I can scrounge up from the SP's and mobility guys at the Aerial Port. Hopefully, some of the guys who use to work for me are still around.

I'll keep you informed on what I find.

Thanks again for the help. I'll be back. Looks like a fun group and a wealth of information.

Mitch "Voo Voo"
Pierce County SAR 4X4 Unit
 
All a wilderness flare is, is one designed to self extinguish prior to returning to earth if properly used.

Wilderness flares was a name for Skyblazers areal flares. Skyblazer was bought out by Orian in 2002 or there abouts.
 
Did they give you any idea what the flares would be used for? Marking LZs, illumination? :confused: ???
 
James 61 said:
Did they give you any idea what the flares would be used for? Marking LZs, illumination? :confused: ???
Click to expand...

WE sometimes use them to quickly ID other teams current postions when possible and to also signal lost subjects to our location. SOmetimes they are on cell phones and guide us in.

Multiple uses.

Skam
 
Voo Voo said:
Thanks for the replies guys. I have a marine flare kit and the SAR guys didn't recommend them. Something about starting fires in the woods and such. nit
Click to expand...


Skyblazers do burn out before impact, or at least mine always have. Relatively cheap to buy as well.

Skam
 
If you are using it only to reveal your position or to guide into people why not use a chemical-light stick, or other type of "glow" stick like This?
 
spyder10 said:
If you are using it only to reveal your position or to guide into people why not use a chemical-light stick, or other type of "glow" stick like This?
Click to expand...

Wont work. We have high powered lights that wont penetrate canopy or dense brush very far. A 400 ft flare shot through a canopy opening is the best option when your target is a mile or more away.

Waiting to try the new lazer flares.

Skam
 
skammer said:
WE sometimes use them to quickly ID other teams current postions when possible and to also signal lost subjects to our location. SOmetimes they are on cell phones and guide us in.

Multiple uses.

Skam
Click to expand...

I guess I should have directed my question Voo Voo. I am trying to get a feel for the intended use so I can give him suggestions as to what kind of device he should get.
 
Thanks again for all of the replies. After speaking with some of the others in the SAR unit it appears that are for shooting threw the trees. I'm up here in Western Washington and they kind of frown on us starting fires in the woods.

I didn't get a chance to run to McChord and try to scrounge stuff from the AF yet but I will soon.

Thanks again guys. I've got until the 12th of Oct to get my gear together for a training mission in the woods so I'll keep checking back here for more info.
 
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