I never thought that I would be posting a statement like this, but there is a production Excalibur Sword that actually appeals to me. Look at the Wilkinson version here http://www.esa-swords.com/Excalibur.htm and let me hear what you think. I know nothing of the quality of their actual blades, I only comment on the historicity of the appearance of the sword for the time in which it would have existed and its general aesthetics.
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Wilkinson Sword's Excalibur
- Thread starter FullerH
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- Aug 24, 1999
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- 933
Actually, from what I remember reading (and it's been some time, this isn't a topic I keep super-up-to-date on, unfortunately), that's what might make this the most accurate representation of Excalibur I've seen thusfar.
Arthur was, historically speaking, an early-period king, with roots far more solidly based in the Roman occupation than the romantic middle ages. Thus, his weapon would be far more likely to be an offshoot or derivative of a gladius than the most typical depiction, which is a longsword from probably four hundred years or more after he would have ruled. Or so says the theory, at least.
If we accept for a moment (just for the sake of discussion) that Excalibur was a "real" sword, forged by a very flesh-and-blood smith of the period, it is not at all difficult to imagine that it might have been patterned after the blades that the smith was familiar with, and the difference from a Gladius would then be attributable to either the imperfection of the copy, or purposed alteration.
Thus, although this piece is by no means my cup of tea, and I wouldn't care for it on my wall, it is very possibly the most accurate portrayal (in a realistic vein) of a sword whose history has been far overshadowed by its mythology.
Arthur was, historically speaking, an early-period king, with roots far more solidly based in the Roman occupation than the romantic middle ages. Thus, his weapon would be far more likely to be an offshoot or derivative of a gladius than the most typical depiction, which is a longsword from probably four hundred years or more after he would have ruled. Or so says the theory, at least.
If we accept for a moment (just for the sake of discussion) that Excalibur was a "real" sword, forged by a very flesh-and-blood smith of the period, it is not at all difficult to imagine that it might have been patterned after the blades that the smith was familiar with, and the difference from a Gladius would then be attributable to either the imperfection of the copy, or purposed alteration.
Thus, although this piece is by no means my cup of tea, and I wouldn't care for it on my wall, it is very possibly the most accurate portrayal (in a realistic vein) of a sword whose history has been far overshadowed by its mythology.
Kalindras, that is very much my feeling, although there is a school that argues that it should be some sort of a Celtic leaf bladed sword since it rather clearly came from a Celtic goddess or priestess, the Lady of the Lake, and was taken from the water, if the legend is to be believed. The Celts were very big on sacrificing holy things by throwing them into lakes and such. I could easily see some Celtic hero dying and the people throwing his sword into a lake, only to have the Lady of the Lake fish it out later for Arthur.
Nobody
Gold Member
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- Dec 13, 2000
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- 1,129
That is an extremely nice blade and hilt shape to me. All the better as I'm of Lewallen bloodlines, aka Llewellyn bloodlines of Wales (Gwynedd) who suppposedly are descended from Cunneda Wledig, etc, etc tied in with Arthurian legend. Most of you will think I'm babbling and I'd really rather not go into a discertation on the subject. Anyhoo, family genealogy is just a step away from mythology in many cases. Tangient over. I really like the sword style as well as leaf shaped celtic blades and longer gladius. Not too keen on the spatha though. When blades get that long I prefer hand and half handles. Actually, I prefer hand and half handles on most all swords. It makes it easier for me to switch between styles of blade-play using the same sword (within reason).
Wow, I'm sounding really scattered today! Sorry.
Wow, I'm sounding really scattered today! Sorry.
I'm nobody, who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell, they'd banish us you know.
How dreary to be someone,
How public like a frog
To tell your name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!
An Emily Dickenson poem memorized in Form IV English back in 1957-1958.
Nobody, the blade on the Wilkenson Excalibur is but 23" while the blade on my Gladius Hispaniensis is 24.5" and that is considered to be a shortsword. The spathae were more like 28" long. The original Gladius Hispaniensis was the longest of the series of Roman gladii, which got shorter until you wound up with a blade about 18" long in the later versions such as the ring-hilted shortswords used in the late 2nd Century CE. In an article in the Journal of Roman Equipment Studies Volume 8 by Peter Connolly entitle "Pilum, Gladius and Pugio in the Late Republic", he observes that the late Republican Gladii Hispaniensi such as mine were generally longer, in the 25" range.
Are you nobody, too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell, they'd banish us you know.
How dreary to be someone,
How public like a frog
To tell your name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!
An Emily Dickenson poem memorized in Form IV English back in 1957-1958.
Nobody, the blade on the Wilkenson Excalibur is but 23" while the blade on my Gladius Hispaniensis is 24.5" and that is considered to be a shortsword. The spathae were more like 28" long. The original Gladius Hispaniensis was the longest of the series of Roman gladii, which got shorter until you wound up with a blade about 18" long in the later versions such as the ring-hilted shortswords used in the late 2nd Century CE. In an article in the Journal of Roman Equipment Studies Volume 8 by Peter Connolly entitle "Pilum, Gladius and Pugio in the Late Republic", he observes that the late Republican Gladii Hispaniensi such as mine were generally longer, in the 25" range.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 1999
- Messages
- 933
"...Look, if I went around calling myself an Emperor, just because some moistened bint in a lake lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!!!"
"Strange women, lying about in ponds distributing cutlery, is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!!"
Sorry...it hadda happen, sooner or later.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 1999
- Messages
- 933
You are correct!!
The aforementioned quotes are from Monty Python's The Holy Grail, and they occur during an early scene, when Arthur (King of the Britons! "King o' the 'oo?!?") is attempting to explain to some peasants how he came to be the King. One of the peasants is, understandably, skeptical.
Dang, now I feel all bad...I thought EVERYBODY knew that film. Now I just feel like a filthy thread-hijacker...
"...And there is but one penalty for [thread-hijacking], here at the Castle Anthrax...you must give us all a good spanking!!!"
The aforementioned quotes are from Monty Python's The Holy Grail, and they occur during an early scene, when Arthur (King of the Britons! "King o' the 'oo?!?") is attempting to explain to some peasants how he came to be the King. One of the peasants is, understandably, skeptical.
Dang, now I feel all bad...I thought EVERYBODY knew that film. Now I just feel like a filthy thread-hijacker...
"...And there is but one penalty for [thread-hijacking], here at the Castle Anthrax...you must give us all a good spanking!!!"
N2S, take a look at any Wilkenson, they are all pricey as heck. Whether they are worth the price is another question, since I do know re-enactors who are so anxious to get the "real" Sykes-Fairbairn Commando Stiletto that they will pay the price since Wilkenson was the firm that made the originals during WWII.
Nobody
Gold Member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2000
- Messages
- 1,129
Don't apologize, I laughed my a$$ off. I've just been busy to respond. Yeah, I think ole Wilkie's are overpriced, IMHO. I was more commenting on the overall blade design that I like more than anything else.
Fencing training, martial arts training of different types, a bit of "kendo-esque" training, and throw in a good bit of self-taught knife work from books and videos results in my having unusual preferences in swordplay weaponry. :footinmou 
Fencing training, martial arts training of different types, a bit of "kendo-esque" training, and throw in a good bit of self-taught knife work from books and videos results in my having unusual preferences in swordplay weaponry.
:footinmou 
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2002
- Messages
- 746
I seem to remember a show on the search for the real Excaliber.
Mention was made that the Latin root words of 'excaliber' meant something like 'from the mold'.
They suggested that the old 'sword in the stone' legend had more to do with Excaliber's being one of the first swords produced by a molding process rather than by hammering out raw steel.
Can anyone comment?
Mention was made that the Latin root words of 'excaliber' meant something like 'from the mold'.
They suggested that the old 'sword in the stone' legend had more to do with Excaliber's being one of the first swords produced by a molding process rather than by hammering out raw steel.
Can anyone comment?
I have never heard of any swords being cast other than the bronze swords. But, then, I am not fully informed on all varieties. I would think, however, that casting iron or steel would not make a very strong blade, hard and able to keep an edge, yes, but tough, no. It would be like cast iron, rather brittle, I should think.
The "Sword in the Stone" was, of course, not Excalibur, but just a sword whipped up by Merlin (Myrddin) as a prop to establish Arthur's claim to the throne. It astually has connections to the Sarmatians, a steppe nomadic people, who had sent hostages to Marcus Aurelius after a brutal war. MA had sent them on to serve in Britannia where they continued to serve as heavy cavalry until the Romans witdrew in the period 406 CE to 410 CE. There are some indications that a war leader in the period around 500 CE was using British heavy cavalry in teh Sarmatian/Late Roman mode against the Anglo-Saxon infantry with considerable success, so this person may be the basis for the Arthur legends and, if so, the sword in the stone story would fit.
BTW, Nobody, one more little tidbit on the Dickenson poem is that, when we were all memorizing it for the turkey teacher, one of my classmates was standing on a streetcorner reciting it to himself, oblivious to whoever was around him. All of a sudden, he felt a pat on his shoulder and looked up to see a DC cop who was working a school crossing, patting him on the shoulder and saying, "It's ok, kid. Things will get better!" My classmate came to school in stiches over that one.
The "Sword in the Stone" was, of course, not Excalibur, but just a sword whipped up by Merlin (Myrddin) as a prop to establish Arthur's claim to the throne. It astually has connections to the Sarmatians, a steppe nomadic people, who had sent hostages to Marcus Aurelius after a brutal war. MA had sent them on to serve in Britannia where they continued to serve as heavy cavalry until the Romans witdrew in the period 406 CE to 410 CE. There are some indications that a war leader in the period around 500 CE was using British heavy cavalry in teh Sarmatian/Late Roman mode against the Anglo-Saxon infantry with considerable success, so this person may be the basis for the Arthur legends and, if so, the sword in the stone story would fit.
BTW, Nobody, one more little tidbit on the Dickenson poem is that, when we were all memorizing it for the turkey teacher, one of my classmates was standing on a streetcorner reciting it to himself, oblivious to whoever was around him. All of a sudden, he felt a pat on his shoulder and looked up to see a DC cop who was working a school crossing, patting him on the shoulder and saying, "It's ok, kid. Things will get better!" My classmate came to school in stiches over that one.