Will a folding knife's flipper save your hand from a lock failure?

[stillshot2]

I always try to use a knife as designed, which is cutting away from yourself at all times and putting all force from the cut directly on the blade stop bar. But, in the event I was forced to use my liner lock zt 0200 in a manner that put stress on the lock, and it did fail, would the flipper really save the blade from chopping my fingers as some people say? Or would the large amount of force causing the failure still cause that flipper to dig in and maim my index finger? I just want to hear about any actual situations where a flipper type blade knife closed on someone during hard, possibly inappropriate use of their knife, and what were the outcomes? The reason is that I regularly shoot firearms so my index finger is valuable to me. Thanks

 

[uxo2]

What would be the event that you speak of.

 

[timberweasel]

No, sir, it surely will not in the same way that wearing a helmet will not guarantee your survival during a catastrophic motorcycle crash. Locks, choils, guards, etc. are all great for adding some small measure of safety to a knife but the best advice is to always use your tools with care.

-Brett

 

[evilgreg]

I always try to use a knife as designed

You were making sense here.

But, in the event I was forced to use my liner lock zt 0200 in a manner that put stress on the lock, and it did fail, would the flipper really save the blade from chopping my fingers as some people say? Or would the large amount of force causing the failure still cause that flipper to dig in and maim my index finger?

But then you went into full reverse with this bit. Please give an example in which you would be using a knife properly that would generate this lock failure followed by flipper-crushing-your-index-finger force. Also, even if that were a reasonable combination (it's not), wouldn't it better to have the flipper mash your finger than, I dunno, the blade slicing into it?

 

[jac_solar]

The forces required to break or bend the liner would probably be more than enough to seriously hurt your finger with the flipper. However, it's probably a good guard against a slippery lock; the forces involved here aren't necessarily extreme, but probably enough to hurt your finger without a guard or flipper.

 

[skyhorse]

The best way to find out is just go for it.

 

[RevDevil]

The best way to find out is just go for it.

 

[Accelerator]

The best way to find out is just go for it.

^^^This.

 

[marcinek]

Always assume nothing will save your hand from lock failure. If you are thinking about lock failure...it's time to go fixed blade.

 

[litetube]

I think it depends on the design of the flipper as well. I can think of a cpl that are full and round like a certain CRKT folder where the injury would probably lessened? then I can think of others where the flipper is no more than a straight outshoot from the blade and looks like it would cause serious damage.

I like the added security if offers

 

[stabman]

On the ZT 0561 it would.
Of course, the lock would have to somehow fail, AND your grip would have to somehow loosen a whole bunch for the lock-bar to slip from the tang...

 

[stillshot2]

You were making sense here.



But then you went into full reverse with this bit. Please give an example in which you would be using a knife properly that would generate this lock failure followed by flipper-crushing-your-index-finger force. Also, even if that were a reasonable combination (it's not), wouldn't it better to have the flipper mash your finger than, I dunno, the blade slicing into it?

I am not implying you would be using the knife properly to have the lock disengage. I am talking about an emergency situation where you have to abuse your knife to either pry or stab something. I realize a fixed blade is better and own a few, but I do not want to open carry one for edc, and my 0200 is always in my pocket and would always be there in an emergency. The flipper on the 0200 is rather interesting, not like the 0561. When swung around the cutout on the flipper straddles the blade stop on the other side, so it seems like it would hurt more than the 0561. Here is a pic: https://www.flickr.com/photos/adudenamedjosh/14361565384/ Many of you say "just go for it," but since there are many knife users here I thought I would ask around before I ever do "go for it." Basically just want to know if there was anyone who has actually had their flipper bladed knife close on them and can comment on how much force is transferred when it happens?

 

[JR88FAN]

I would say no.

It is somewhat of a guard against that, but the amount of force required to have the lock fail would mean that your index finger would most likely be pushed away from the flipper and make contact with the blade...

I am playing with one right now, and that's the scenario that seems most likely.

 

[JR88FAN]

Stabbing or prying should not disengage the blade on a well designed knife.....

Wacking the spine might, but why would you ever do that?!

One final thought, if I was going to do a lot of stabbing with a knife (not people obviously) and I had to use a folding knife,
It would not be a liner or frame lock.

Axis lock comes to mind as something that will not fail you in that scenario.

 

[stillshot2]

Those are similar observations I had with the flipper pushing my hand back. The 0200 seems to be designed well since the lock bar is recessed further than many other liner locks and would be hard to disengage by accident. Mine has no movement in any shape or form so I suppose it wouldn't fail. But I once accidentally dropped an open Kershaw Brawler tip down on a carpet floor. It had a pretty strong liner lock but the lock actually disengaged as if the blade slid the lockbar out of the way so it could close, probably due to the shockwave running through it when it hit the ground. I was baffled since I was expecting it to stick vertically and leave a nasty hole in the carpet, but instead ended up on its side and halfway closed.

 

[FPS Knifer]

Most blade flippers are rather short, and just barely long enough to stick out the back of the frame when closed. Rather than act as a hilt during a lock failure, I'd envision the blade flipper acting more like a pair of scissors and shearing through your index finger. There is, however, at least one knife I've seen where the flipper might actually be effective at protecting your hand - the SF variants of the CRKT M16 & M21 series. The flippers on these knives were designed to actually function as a hilt, and are about twice as long as your typical flipper.

 

[G. Scott H.]

I would say no.

It is somewhat of a guard against that, but the amount of force required to have the lock fail would mean that your index finger would most likely be pushed away from the flipper and make contact with the blade...

I am playing with one right now, and that's the scenario that seems most likely.

That's what I was thinking. The fact that flippers work to some degree as guards or quillions is just a secondary consequence of their design. They could potentially be good for giving tactile feedback about where your fingers are in relation to the edge in the dark or when you can't look at the knife, and they could perhaps give you some small extra measure of safety when, say, pushing the blade into a medium you wish to cut, but that's about it in my opinion. Ultimately, though, I just think of them as flippers and not as guards.

 

[HappyDaddy]

Maybe - in the same way the engine guard on my Road King saved my leg. It isn't designed or intended to be a safety feature, but sometimes you get lucky.

 

[JR88FAN]

That's what I was thinking. The fact that flippers work to some degree as guards or quillions is just a secondary consequence of their design. They could potentially be good for giving tactile feedback about where your fingers are in relation to the edge in the dark or when you can't look at the knife, and they could perhaps give you some small extra measure of safety when, say, pushing the blade into a medium you wish to cut, but that's about it in my opinion. Ultimately, though, I just think of them as flippers and not as guards.

Agreed.

I have a really good sized flipper on mine, so when the blade is open I never have to really worry about my index finger.

It acts as a great choil, however, in terms of hard use lock failure, It wouldn't do all that much.....

 

[JR88FAN]

Those are similar observations I had with the flipper pushing my hand back. The 0200 seems to be designed well since the lock bar is recessed further than many other liner locks and would be hard to disengage by accident. Mine has no movement in any shape or form so I suppose it wouldn't fail. But I once accidentally dropped an open Kershaw Brawler tip down on a carpet floor. It had a pretty strong liner lock but the lock actually disengaged as if the blade slid the lockbar out of the way so it could close, probably due to the shockwave running through it when it hit the ground. I was baffled since I was expecting it to stick vertically and leave a nasty hole in the carpet, but instead ended up on its side and halfway closed.

Not to try to over think this, but blade design will play a large roll as well in terms of where force will be transfered during a 'stabbing' motion.

If you are using a blade that is a spearpoint you will transfer the load more evently on the lock, so upward and downward load. However, a drop point will transfer more of the load directly onto the lock, downward.

Hope the 'upward/downword made sense...!