Will compound on wood yield a face shaving sharp edge? If so which compounds?

S

Squashfan

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Jun 6, 2012
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I am happy with the paper around stone strop for working edges. I start with black then go to Flexcut gold and it is all I need for my working edges. The paper around stone yields absolutely the bare minimum three finger sticky. But I want to step my sharpening up a notch. I want to go at least face hair shaving sharp. I have a four pieces of one inch wide wood. I also have the diasharp diamond paste for use after I get used to the wood. Actually, the pieces of wood are rulers but I am working with what I have. I also have black, green, white and gold compound. This will be on a softer steel such as AUS-8, Sandvik 14c28N, and various carbon steels.

Is this possible or am I going to have to go leather? I have an old leather belt to use if this endeavour falls through.
 
My only experience is with good quality green compound, it barely gets the job done for face shaving, the scratch pattern looks kinda like a 2k stone, not mirror polish level.

I prefer the EP 7k grit tapes for sharpening my straight.
 
The wood will work with the compounds but that's only half the problem... What stones are you using get the edge ready for a high grit compound?
 
Hmmm. The only freehand stones that I have for soft steels are a coarse/fine combo stone and, if it counts, a 1200 grit Eze lap diamond. If I were to do this freehand, which I would like to eventually, what stones would I need?

However, I don't yet have the control to perfectly freehand a bevel that is free of a tiny microbevel. So this will probably be done on my Lansky. I have all three ceramic stone for the Lansky (fine, 1000 grit, and 2000 grit). As well as two complete sets, one of diamond and the other is the regular stones. EDIT: I should tell you what is in the sets. DUH! The diamond contains fine, medium, coarse and extra coarse. The regular contains the following ripped from Lansky's website. Extra Coarse (70 grit), Coarse (120 grit), Medium (280 grit), ****Actually, this stone is ceramic. Fine (600 grit)**** Alumina Oxide Hones and an Extra Fine Ceramic (1000 grit) Hone
 
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I've been using a couple of balsa blocks with compound lately, for stropping. One is green compound, the other is 600 grit SiC; both in dry powder form, purchased at a local rockhound/lapidary hobby shop. I applied the compound to each block by mixing with mineral oil, and 'painting' it onto the block with a brush. Pretty heavy application of compound; I've previously avoided applying it this thick on leather, and even recommended against it. But it seems to work well on the balsa. The compound/mineral oil 'slurry' on each block has worked out great, and I've found is great for polishing as well.

I bring all this up, because I was dry-shaving some facial stubble and hair from the back of my neck the other day, after stropping on one or both of these blocks. The blades I used were XC90 (Opinel), CV (Case), 1095 (Schrade) and 420HC (Case). All are pretty thin at the edge; the Opinel and the Case CV (sheepsfoot) blade in particular, are very thin. They were thinned by various means (diamond, SiC stone and/or wet/dry sandpaper), and most of the refinement of all of them has been done with wet/dry paper and stropping on the SiC & green balsa strops, as well as occasional touch-ups on a leather belt (sueded side) with green compound.

So, to the original question of whether it's possible to produce a shaving edge with compound on wood, I'd say it is. And all the more easy, the thinner the edge grind is.


David
 
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Squashfan said:
I am happy with the paper around stone strop for working edges. I start with black then go to Flexcut gold and it is all I need for my working edges. The paper around stone yields absolutely the bare minimum three finger sticky. But I want to step my sharpening up a notch. I want to go at least face hair shaving sharp. I have a four pieces of one inch wide wood. I also have the diasharp diamond paste for use after I get used to the wood. Actually, the pieces of wood are rulers but I am working with what I have. I also have black, green, white and gold compound. This will be on a softer steel such as AUS-8, Sandvik 14c28N, and various carbon steels.

Is this possible or am I going to have to go leather? I have an old leather belt to use if this endeavour falls through.
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Leather is going to work better for a face shaving edge - plenty of folks do use Flexcut to prepare shaving razors used on smooth leather, then they strop on plain leather for a few minutes. You can also try wrapping a few more sheets around the stone, using a smoother stone etc -this keeps the surface fairly hard, but smooth. It will translate to the steel as a flatter profile, then finish by stropping on a few sheets of plain paper, maybe 40-50 passes.

As mentioned you should do more stone work up front, the EF ceramic should get you close enough if done carefully.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Leather is going to work better for a face shaving edge - plenty of folks do use Flexcut to prepare shaving razors used on smooth leather, then they strop on plain leather for a few minutes. You can also try wrapping a few more sheets around the stone, using a smoother stone etc -this keeps the surface fairly hard, but smooth. It will translate to the steel as a flatter profile, then finish by stropping on a few sheets of plain paper, maybe 40-50 passes.

As mentioned you should do more stone work up front, the EF ceramic should get you close enough if done carefully.
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Lots of good advice in that post. Two more questions.

If I were to try to do this freehand what stones would I need?
And what edge angle would this need to be? Less than 20? Or could I get that face hair shaving sharpness at approx. 20 degrees?
 
Squashfan said:
Lots of good advice in that post. Two more questions.

If I were to try to do this freehand what stones would I need?
And what edge angle would this need to be? Less than 20? Or could I get that face hair shaving sharpness at approx. 20 degrees?
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All depends on what you mean by "face shaving". If you mean comfortably and reliably, you're talking about straight razors. Many folks use a Norton 8k waterstone followed by green CrO on leather followed by plain horesehide. Inclusive angles on most straights are 12-18. This is the same in principle as sharpening any knife, but there are peculiarities re straights that are specific to the features of the spine etc. I am not the guy to advise on their care etc.

On a regular knife, you'll find it gets a lot easier as you go below 30 degrees inclusive, tho a shaving edge can be done at larger angles. If you carefully finish off on the 1000 grit ceramic and strop with Flexcut on two or three sheets of copypaper, followed by 40-50 passes on plain paper or two or three sheets of newspaper wrapped around the stone, it should shave your face with very little snag - might not be comfortable. Your green compound should work even better, but a lighter touch will be needed. The white compound you have might finish somewhere between the Flexcut and the green, all depends. From a practical aspect they will all be very close in finish. Most rely on the green CrO for a final polish when shooting for a shaving edge. In all reality you can get an edge to shave your face with reasonable comfort from a rougher edge than that, maybe 300-400 grit if done carefully and finished off nice - you will want some hot lather to be comfortable, but can be done. To shave your face dry without too much irritation would require the finer edge.
 
1200 diamond (EF) followed with 1000 and 1500 sandpaper, washboard and balance strop.

Can shave, nice but not as smooth as disposable razor. Perhaps my skin is tough :p
 
Woods can be used without compound....Try this next time you're whittling. Draw the edge back after
each cut....the edge will get sharper as you whittle....for a while.

I have a walnut walking staff I made, with a flat area on one side for just that purpose.
 
Heavyhanded, I am indebted to you for all the wonderful info you have given me. This was one of those threads where I was just curious. What actually kicked this off was me getting to work and realizing that I had forgotten to shave. I thought maybe I could get to where I could shave with my EDC but it doesn't look practical. I will just pack a disposable razor and a little bit of shaving cream with me in my EDC bag.
Though this thread may inspire me to try a leather strop.

Russ, I keep a block of wood near my sharpening station to hold thin stones up off the counter and I actually stropped my Spyderco Military on this block of wood after some 6 micron diamond paste. Good to know that a plain wood strop works and it wasn't my imagination that the Military got sharper.
 
As HH said, it all depends on what you mean by "face shaving." If you have an apexed, burr-free edge, you can shave face hairs off with a knife finished on a coarse stone. But if you mean comfortable face shaving, as a real straight razor honemeister would define it, you would need to go to 12k or higher with water stones or naturals and then 60 good passes on a plain leather strop to get an edge so refined it's like glass and doesn't irritate the face. I know that there are folks here who don't go to that extreme and are happy with their shaving edges. I don't hone razors, don't have the equipment, and don't shave with a straight, so all this is second hand knowledge (although I spend a lot of time lurking on straight razor forums just to read their fascinating take on sharpening). I do shave with a DE razor, though.
 
Like I said, green compound is scratchy, of course you can shave with a 600 grit edge, but that's not shaving.
 
Squashfan said:
Heavyhanded, I am indebted to you for all the wonderful info you have given me. This was one of those threads where I was just curious. What actually kicked this off was me getting to work and realizing that I had forgotten to shave. I thought maybe I could get to where I could shave with my EDC but it doesn't look practical. I will just pack a disposable razor and a little bit of shaving cream with me in my EDC bag.
Though this thread may inspire me to try a leather strop.

Russ, I keep a block of wood near my sharpening station to hold thin stones up off the counter and I actually stropped my Spyderco Military on this block of wood after some 6 micron diamond paste. Good to know that a plain wood strop works and it wasn't my imagination that the Military got sharper.
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I've had that happen before, washing my hands in the Men's room in the AM and catch a glimpse of some straggly growth. For just clipping facial stubble, any clean edge should work at or above 600 grit or so. Better off at 1200 or higher. My EDUs will do it as long as they are clean and haven't seen a lot of work since their last touch up. If they have tape residue or too many days since the last touch up, it'll be a rough ride. When I'm doing a lot of tinkering with edges, I'll dry shave my face so often I loose track of where my disposable got left in the bathroom. Then again, I only shave my cheeks, neck, and jaw line - normally wear a goatee and small mustache.
 
You know, it shows me just how much I have to learn about sharpening when you say you can shave your face with an edge above 600 grit. Which type of stone is that? None of my edges will shave MY facial at all comfortably. But I also have a lot of facial hair and I suspect it is tough. I used to use off brand BIC razors and they gave out after one shave.

I am going clean shaven again. I tried growing a mustache for a while but I shaved it off after my coworkers started calling it a "molestache".
 
Squashfan said:
You know, it shows me just how much I have to learn about sharpening when you say you can shave your face with an edge above 600 grit. Which type of stone is that? None of my edges will shave MY facial at all comfortably. But I also have a lot of facial hair and I suspect it is tough. I used to use off brand BIC razors and they gave out after one shave.

I am going clean shaven again. I tried growing a mustache for a while but I shaved it off after my coworkers started calling it a "molestache".
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When I started participating on the forum I couldn't get that sort of edge at 600 grit anything. Then I started reading in on threads about the guided systems and people shaving their faces (maybe not comfortably, but doing it) at 600 grit or even a touch lower. While I could get good edges, it was laborious to say the least, and had to have a lot of stones in my progression to make the finer edges work. Began to suspect I wasn't being honest with myself about how well I could hold my edge angle. I still remember the evening I was able to dry shave my jawline with an edge coming off the fine side of a Vermont American AlumOx combination stone - what an eye-opener!

Keeping the edge angle acute (under 30 inclusive), keeping the bevel variation to a minimum, and cleanly removing the burr are critical. Again, I'm not claiming to comfortably shave at 600 grit, but with a good amount of foam it'll work. As the edges approach the 1200-1500 mark (4-6k JWS), the edges become a lot more capable of shaving with some comfort. Keep in mind, straight razor users will strop on plain leather every shave, and on a loaded strop as needed - from what I understand maybe once a week or three times every two weeks - something in that range. Their razor isn't being asked to do anything else - ever. It would take a lot of work to maintain an EDU edge to shave your face comfortably on command, and the edge wouldn't be as efficient for EDU tasks anyway. That's why I included the bit about me being in a tinkering mode to have constant edges that will do so. My face would get mighty raw if my usual EDU edges were all I could shave with - I'd have to redefine "EDU"...

HH
 
I know I would not be happy with a 600 or even a 6000 grit edge for shaving my face, I would have razor burn like crazy. Not that it won't shave the hair it just won't feel very good.

When I sharpen razors I finish with a 15,000 grit Ozuku Asagi then strop a few times on Chromium oxide before doing a final strop on a hanging strop.
 
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