Will CRK ever add a steel insert to their lockbar?

colubrid

colubrid

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Nov 26, 2005
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A replaceble steel insert on a Sebenza would be nice to have to restore any problems like late lockup, shake, stcky lockbar ect.

I was just wondering how many people here would like to see that?
 
This is the wrong area for this.

To answer your question though. The sebenza doesn't need a insert. It relys on other features, proper lock up geometry, tight tolerances and carbidized lock face.

Besides adding hardware to that area on the lock arm for the insert adds a failure point to the lock arm. The insert can buckle and break if under too much stress. But that would be gross misuse of any folder so that point is moot.

If not having an insert is a issue for you they do make the Inkosi which has a ceramic ball lock up. Same as the umnaam.
 
I don't care for screwed on lockbar interfaces.

I'm fine with the ceramic ball setup, and intrigued by Jason Guthrie's GTI insert. It is similar to the CRK ceramic ball in that it is embedded in the Ti lockbar, but appears to be "flat" (like a standard RIL). Basically, it looks like a small tungsten rod is inserted in a hole bored straight into the lockface (on the titanium bar) - so that the end of the rod is the interface. Just glancing at it, it would appear to give the same type of longevity to the lockbar face as the CRK ball, but with a more "traditional" contact surface.
 
DeadboxHero said:
This is the wrong area for this.

To answer your question though. The sebenza doesn't need a insert. It relys on other features, proper lock up geometry, tight tolerances and carbidized lock face.

Besides adding hardware to that area on the lock arm for the insert adds a failure point to the lock arm. The insert can buckle and break if under too much stress. But that would be gross misuse of any folder so that point is moot.

If not having an insert is a issue for you they do make the Inkosi which has a ceramic ball lock up. Same as the umnaam.
Click to expand...

There is no deposition of foreign material on the lock face. (called carbidizing )
The surface is carburized (heat treat of the surface layer)
 
The 25, Inkosi and Umnumzaan use a ceramic ball on the lockface instead. I imagine the blade tang would probably wear away before the ball does. As for the 21 the oxide layer they put on the lockface is already so durable that the knives can potentially stay locking correctly for a life time. I actually like the 21 style lock. Worst case scenario your grandson may have to send the sucker in for service.
 
Lapedog said:
The 25, Inkosi and Umnumzaan use a ceramic ball on the lockface instead. I imagine the blade tang would probably wear away before the ball does. As for the 21 the oxide layer they put on the lockface is already so durable that the knives can potentially stay locking correctly for a life time. I actually like the 21 style lock. Worst case scenario your grandson may have to send the sucker in for service.
Click to expand...

That reasoning frankly makes sense, given that the blade should be about due for a replacement due to sharpening by the time the lockface is worn enough to worry about - essentially the blade itself becomes the only "wear 'n tear" part.
 
While I agree with lapedog, bhyde, T.K.C. and others have said regarding the longevity of the lockface, the choice of other knives with the ceramic ball interface, there is something to be said about the problem of lockstick.
When and where titanium meets steel always will create a problem area. CRK has dealt with that to my satisfaction by exacting tolerances, etc.
Shirogorov in their 95t model used an insert in addition to extremely high tolerances. For those of you who have never handled, or as we lovingly say on BF, "fondled", that particular knife don't prejudge that solution. It is elegantly done and provides almost immediate lockup at a very low percentage of movement of the lock bar.
Ask our fellow member AJack60 about his recent experience with a Shirogorov after many more years than I have of experience with CRKs. I will continue to buy and use heavily all models of CRKs but I would love to see them add, whether by a new high end model, or as an option to an existing model a harder metal insert to the lockbar face.
I have no doubt about their ability to do that with their normal high level of quality. I personally think it "might" just add a new level of smoothness in the lockup and un-lock phase of the knife.
IMHO only... [emoji16]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
DeadboxHero said:
This is the wrong area for this.

To answer your question though. The sebenza doesn't need a insert. It relys on other features, proper lock up geometry, tight tolerances and carbidized lock face.

Besides adding hardware to that area on the lock arm for the insert adds a failure point to the lock arm. The insert can buckle and break if under too much stress. But that would be gross misuse of any folder so that point is moot.

If not having an insert is a issue for you they do make the Inkosi which has a ceramic ball lock up. Same as the umnaam.
Click to expand...

Its not carbidized


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In addition jdavis has a video on how u can change the lock % a bit which might be very usefull long term.
 
Thin-Slice said:
In addition jdavis has a video on how u can change the lock % a bit which might be very usefull long term.
Click to expand...

This method is basically tightening the screws down while making the scales fasten in an un-even fashion. I think it's a bad idea, like tightening a wheel on a car unevenly, it will sit slightly off somewhere in the fitment. I'ts just an illusion of earlier lockup after you do this due to the offset fitting. Also this could put un-even stress against drilled holes or anchor points. Plus, i'm a little disappointed you can even exploit the tolerances on a CRK enough to do that trick.
 
Last edited:
Mick_1KRR said:
This method is basically tightening the screws down while making the scales fasten in an un-even fashion. I think it's a bad idea, like tightening a wheel on a car unevenly, it will sit slightly off somewhere in the fitment. I'ts just an illusion of earlier lockup after you do this due to the offset fitting. Also this could put un-even stress against drilled holes or anchor points. Plus, i'm a little disappointed you can even exploit the tolerances on a CRK enough to do that trick.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely. Also, I don't even think this would make a difference on most sebenzas as the tolerances won't allow for that kind of shift on the scales/screws.
 
I don't see it happening, and wouldn't like it on a Sebenza. I know some high end knives have an insert (Rockstead comes to mind) but I think the look cheapens a knife. Simple is nice:)
 
I have a Large CF Inkosi and the ceramic ball is nice and complements the lockup well.

But, Hands down, you Can Not beat the lockup on a Sebenza 21.!
The tolerances are so tight and lockup at a perfect 45-50%.
For a production knife I feel you cannot beat a Sebenza for the money!
Add in costumer service and it's a no brainer.

I have fondeled as you say some of the Shirogorov and I'm not huge fan of that early lockup.
Locking up early at 10% scares the bejesus out of me as I use my knives heavily.
 
Not for me. No need. My CRKs get used, and have no lock stick, or wear issues. Never once have I wanted the clean lines of a 21 sullied with a piece of steel and more screws.

In my mind, the steel insert started as a way for budget makers to skip the difficult task of getting proper lock geometry and proper heat treating of the TI, which we all know is a challenge and can lead to lock stick and wear issues. It also removes a step in the knife making process as everything can just be CNC'd, water-jetted etc, then put together. Since it was perceived and sold as a "feature", it started to appear on higher end knives as an "upgrade". In essence, I think it is actually 'lazy' knifemaking of sorts. If you do a Ti lock bar properly it's not needed, but what do I know?

As far as the idea that you can replace your insert when it wears out to make your knife last forever, I doubt any of the inserts will be available by the time they are needed. I can't imagine the grief trying to get a lock bar insert from Russia for my 10 year old Shiro, etc. With CRK, I think if you ever wore out your lockbar, there's a slightly better chance they would make things right.
 
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