will most axis/bar lock knives have a light detent?

[JeremiahWeaver09]

i just got a new microtech msi and a bar lock version of the kizer sheepdog, both of them the blade just falls out of the handle with the lightest flick of the wrist and tightening the pivot does not help at all. this got me curious so i looked at some of my benchmades and found the turret, griptilian, 417 and presidio all had light detents that made the blade fall out just as easily and then i remembered selling the adamas too because the detent was so light. is a light detent just inherent in the design of this kind of lock and how much should we be worried about light detents? is it a dealbreaker for you guys or does it not bother some of you? is there any danger in carrying and using a knife with a light detent? the reason i like backlocks most is because of the strong detent that makes it feel very secure to carry.

 

[Modernflame]

I know what you mean. I've never had a mishap, but I only front pocket carry tip up so that the blade is nested into the corner of my pocket. I'd be apprehensive about it any other way.

 

[Tsujigiri]

Because of the design of these locks, the detent is more of a rolling break than the sharper one you'd get with a ball detent in a framelock or linerlock, so the detent may feel lighter than it actually is.

 

[mitchnola]

Just checked a couple of my griptillians and your right. I don’t think they have a detent but are just held in place by the lock. So only the spring of the lock holds them closed from what I can tell at least.

I’ve had mine for years and never had a problem with them opening unintentionally. Never even noticed that till now.

 

[HexY3co]

They don't have a detent. It is more like a cam action as it moves the axis out of the way to open. Should have enough resistance to keep the blade closed without any worry that it will just fall open. The omega springs or other type springs add tension to the interface to keep it closed.

 

[Dadpool]

is a light detent just inherent in the design of this kind of lock and how much should we be worried about light detents?

Yes, I believe so (at least it's been true of all the variations I've owned), and no, not much at all. Just carry them tip-up with the spine of the blade against the seam of your pocket.

 

[jeffsenpai]

I have noticed this. Some of the budgety crossbar lock knives, especially those that run on bearings, have a weak detent. I can just shake the blade right out of the handle. I doubt it would happen accidentally, but it is noteworthy.

 

[norcalAF]

I picked up a tactile, great example of the Axis lock.

 

[Another Shepherd]

I have never had any of a couple dozen Benchmades "fall out of the handle with the lightest flick of the wrist." Many of them will open with a hard wrist flick. The guy who designed the Spyderco Yojimbo has a Youtube video where he demonstrates this method as the best way to open a knife (not just Benchmades).

 

[Chronovore]

This is a big part of the reason I don't like this style of lock. It's not about knives accidentally opening. It's about enjoying a crisp break. A liner or frame lock with a good detent is just so satisfying to snap open with my thumb or a single finger.

 

[shinyedges]

I have never had any of a couple dozen Benchmades "fall out of the handle with the lightest flick of the wrist." Many of them will open with a hard wrist flick. The guy who designed the Spyderco Yojimbo has a Youtube video where he demonstrates this method as the best way to open a knife (not just Benchmades).

Do you own an adamas? The heavy blade and lack of detent lets it wrist flick much easier than "hard". Can be shaken out with a light shake. Not that I've had it open in my pocket so meh.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Do you own an adamas? The heavy blade and lack of detent lets it wrist flick much easier than "hard". Can be shaken out with a light shake. Not that I've had it open in my pocket so meh.

One of things I enjoy about both Adamas folders is that both can be snapped open and shut without even looking at the knife (with practice of course). It's nice to able to keep my hand and attention on what I am cutting while safely opening and closing the knife "off screen".

I've actually gotten so used to the Adamas that detents have to be almost perfect for me to prefer them for daily use. Unless it's like that crisp glass break of a CRK, I kinda feel myself thumbing open a knife, like, "com'on girl. Gitta movin'". Even getting used to something higher end like my new Spartan SHF has taken some time. The detent is great on that knife, but I've really grown used to the Axis lock.

 

[shinyedges]

Do you own an adamas? The heavy blade and lack of detent lets it wrist flick much easier than "hard". Can be shaken out with a light shake. Not that I've had it open in my pocket so meh.

I can relate, I used to do the same method of opening on the adamas when I carried it. Lately I've been carrying a crk and I like the crispness as well.

 

[Another Shepherd]

Do you own an adamas? The heavy blade and lack of detent lets it wrist flick much easier than "hard". Can be shaken out with a light shake. Not that I've had it open in my pocket so meh.

Don't have a full-size Adamas. My Mini Adamas maybe takes a little less wrist flick than, say, a Griptilian, but that's still more wrist flick than I would normally use for any knife.
My old S30V Bugouts are really hard to open with just a wrist flick.
A The James Brand Kline is easier to wrist-flick than the Mini Adamas.
Likewise a Hogue Deka and a Vosteed Racoon.

 

[Smaug]

Yes, and it’s actually a selling point for bar lock knives.

They don’t accidentally fall open, so you don’t need to worry about that. People like that once you pull the lock back, the blade is swinging freely. It can be flipped open or closed with very little effort, and it is also safe.

With a liner lock or compression lock, there’s always sideways tension on the blade, Always some friction to overcome when opening. That’s why they need the detent in the first place.

With a bar lock, The lock works in the opposite axis, (Hence the term Axis Lock) so the pivot action doesn’t need this friction.

Remember that the point of the detent is not safety, but so that once you get the blade moving, it has enough inertia to overcome the inherent friction and fly open.

 

[CHuynh22]

Yes, and it’s actually a selling point for bar lock knives.

They don’t accidentally fall open, so you don’t need to worry about that. People like that once you pull the lock back, the blade is swinging freely. It can be flipped open or closed with very little effort, and it is also safe.

With a liner lock or compression lock, there’s always sideways tension on the blade, Always some friction to overcome when opening. That’s why they need the detent in the first place.

With a bar lock, The lock works in the opposite axis, (Hence the term Axis Lock) so the pivot action doesn’t need this friction.

Remember that the point of the detent is not safety, but so that once you get the blade moving, it has enough inertia to overcome the inherent friction and fly open.

Gotta say, "...enough inertia to overcome the inherent friction and fly open" is an explanation that makes so much sense. I never thought of the detent that way, but its exactly what I like having a frame lock/compression lock knife. There is "X" amount of force that is required to overcome that detent, but now it makes sense that "x" amount is to overcome that friction of the lock interface to the blade as it is swinging open.

I've always had a negative look towards axis/crossbar/shark locks due to that lack of/weak detent. If I go from flicking open my Sebenza for some time, then switch to a cross bar without thinking, my initial action is to "load" up my finger on the stud. Doing that just makes the blade move.

 

[brownshoe]

Yes, and it’s actually a selling point for bar lock knives.

They don’t accidentally fall open, so you don’t need to worry about that. People like that once you pull the lock back, the blade is swinging freely. It can be flipped open or closed with very little effort, and it is also safe.

With a liner lock or compression lock, there’s always sideways tension on the blade, Always some friction to overcome when opening. That’s why they need the detent in the first place.

With a bar lock, The lock works in the opposite axis, (Hence the term Axis Lock) so the pivot action doesn’t need this friction.

Remember that the point of the detent is not safety, but so that once you get the blade moving, it has enough inertia to overcome the inherent friction and fly open.

Ball detents predate flippers and were originally a safety feature. Early liner locks didn’t have them and could unintentionally open. Detents solved that difficulty. Then came flippers where the detent needed to be designed so there was enough radial force to spring the knife open. It still holds the blade closed.

 

[Delta-v]

With an AXIS lock, it's going to depend on the weight of the blade. It's difficult to shake a Bugout open, while a Griptilian takes a moderate shake to open, while a fullsize Adamas shakes open with a lighter shake. More mass means the springs have less ability to resist. You won't get the sharp break of a ball detent. It's just not in the design. But you will get a lot more suck back. A ball detent is overcome by pushing the knife open just a few degrees, just enough to clear the detent hole. But an AXIS lock has to be pushed much further open to overcome the camming action, like closer to 30 degrees. Anything short of that and the bias closes the knife. Because of that, I've never found an AXIS lock staying closed in the pocket to be a concern, especially clipped to the pocket blade to seam.