Just food for thought... will modern designs be considered traditional in the future, or will companies continue to produce classic designs similar to the designs we consider traditional by today's standards? Will Benchmade or Spyderco in the future ever become equilivant to what Case Knives or GEC are today?
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Will present day designs be considered traditional in the future?
- Thread starter G.Moll
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I think that traditional knives as we know it, will always remain classified as such. Styles that vary from the classic folding knife will never be accepted as traditional, no matter how common or popular they become. I appreciate the advancements in materials and design of today's popular knives, but a para 2 will never be classified as traditional, classic = yes, but traditional = no.
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Hmmm. Good question
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Unless someone invents the pocket lightsaber I think one hand opening locking folders are as far as the evolution of edged pocket tools goes.
So no modern classics like the para 2 yes but traditionals will be traditionals.
So no modern classics like the para 2 yes but traditionals will be traditionals.
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Interesting thought. I think ussteel nailed it though. Unless slip joints become illegal.
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Will their be a future history rich with stories, shared by many people, of that United Cutlery Kligon Batlef thing being used to better peoples work or life?
It could always happen again. Common use of words has overriden the defined word quite a bit through history. The word "traditional" could be contorted a few times over before I die.
It could always happen again. Common use of words has overriden the defined word quite a bit through history. The word "traditional" could be contorted a few times over before I die.
what current knife design could possibly evolve into a classic knife pattern of the future?
when you consider that knives are more relegated to the kitchen
far more than anything else in the political correctness of our times.
growth in usage of which fields of human endeavours could knives possibly be required to accelerate in design for optimal utility?
we have gone through the agrarian, industrial, atomic and now, the information age.
was there a defined knife pattern peculiar to each period?
originally, knife designs were dictated by tradition of use by a particular culture at some point in time.
tradition has died with the adoption of popular culture which is the creation of profit on a global scale.
something very removed from the ideas of tradition and steadfastness.
it is spurred by dynamism which uproots any clichés about tradition.
just my 2 cents rant.
when you consider that knives are more relegated to the kitchen
far more than anything else in the political correctness of our times.
growth in usage of which fields of human endeavours could knives possibly be required to accelerate in design for optimal utility?
we have gone through the agrarian, industrial, atomic and now, the information age.
was there a defined knife pattern peculiar to each period?
originally, knife designs were dictated by tradition of use by a particular culture at some point in time.
tradition has died with the adoption of popular culture which is the creation of profit on a global scale.
something very removed from the ideas of tradition and steadfastness.
it is spurred by dynamism which uproots any clichés about tradition.
just my 2 cents rant.
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That was interesting. I read it three times. So...was that a yes or no?? Haha. Im thinking your saying no?? I also think you had a few valid points but you got lost in the trenches there. You actually made the best case for the answer being yes.
If as a society we become so politically correct that knives are relegated solely to the kitchen. If, in the future, we become removed from tradition and steadfastness, it will make the tradition and steadfastness of the past (today) look even more glaring and obvious. So I can imagine the people of that future you describe saying to each other "wow, imagine how it used to be the tradition to carry a folding knife around on your person!!". And if it is a future where knives have literally become "demonized", then it will most likely be the more "tactical" styled knives of today that were used for the "demonizing", therefore making them quite likely to be what the future remembers as "traditional!
How bout them taters? ;-)
oh yes! "the forbidden fruit" factor.
whereby all thing illegal becomes much coveted or deeply desired.
But how many will actually break the law to fulfill such a notion?
For a developed society will always be coxed into following the rule of law of a particular land or nation;
which if all things point,
to one which will either progress through science and technology
or one which is deeply rooted in a moral belief system of some sort.
we cannot predict future outcomes but weigh only the likelihood of possibilities
derived from related past and current events which shape the world of the future.
progress means doing away with past mistakes and holding on to what works as a legacy
until such time when new discoveries lead to the creation and implementation of a new culture which will in time become heritage.
So what I m saying is, if it ain't broke why fix it? Reinventing the wheel isn't really solving anything.
Which is what so many current cutlery factories are trying to do.
A knife has only two physical factors to work, it requires a point and an edge.
No matter how well a knife is designed or made,
it hardly can be improved in the thousands of years since it's inception
as a tool with a basic ability to cut, slash, slice, dice, chop, pierce and thrust.
Because that's all a knife tool actually does.
The only true on going thing would be to constantly improve edge retention and blade strength.
Everything else is pretty cosmetic and artificial.
Traditional or ethnic knives will be held on with reverence by the cultures which hold them dear.
So if the tradition is artificial, something not created out of basic human needs required for survival (hunting and war);
than it is sad day for mankind having sold out into the commercialism of popular culture and all the crafty reasons of marketing for profit.
What many consider as modern "traditional" factory made knives aren't really traditional in that sense but mass produced vintage classic factory mades.
I consider the term "traditional" as something being related to traditional life styles in the scheme of things.
So yeah, future generations could well view today's tactical knives as a product of a time when urban mankind felt pretty insecure of his surroundings as when Jim Bowie did his.
point noted Surfingringo!
whereby all thing illegal becomes much coveted or deeply desired.
But how many will actually break the law to fulfill such a notion?
For a developed society will always be coxed into following the rule of law of a particular land or nation;
which if all things point,
to one which will either progress through science and technology
or one which is deeply rooted in a moral belief system of some sort.
we cannot predict future outcomes but weigh only the likelihood of possibilities
derived from related past and current events which shape the world of the future.
progress means doing away with past mistakes and holding on to what works as a legacy
until such time when new discoveries lead to the creation and implementation of a new culture which will in time become heritage.
So what I m saying is, if it ain't broke why fix it? Reinventing the wheel isn't really solving anything.
Which is what so many current cutlery factories are trying to do.
A knife has only two physical factors to work, it requires a point and an edge.
No matter how well a knife is designed or made,
it hardly can be improved in the thousands of years since it's inception
as a tool with a basic ability to cut, slash, slice, dice, chop, pierce and thrust.
Because that's all a knife tool actually does.
The only true on going thing would be to constantly improve edge retention and blade strength.
Everything else is pretty cosmetic and artificial.
Traditional or ethnic knives will be held on with reverence by the cultures which hold them dear.
So if the tradition is artificial, something not created out of basic human needs required for survival (hunting and war);
than it is sad day for mankind having sold out into the commercialism of popular culture and all the crafty reasons of marketing for profit.
What many consider as modern "traditional" factory made knives aren't really traditional in that sense but mass produced vintage classic factory mades.
I consider the term "traditional" as something being related to traditional life styles in the scheme of things.
So yeah, future generations could well view today's tactical knives as a product of a time when urban mankind felt pretty insecure of his surroundings as when Jim Bowie did his.
point noted Surfingringo!
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Good stuff. My favorite part was at the end when you agreed with me! ;-).
stabman
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Yes.
As soon as the present generation qualifies as "old", the current "modern" folders will be traditional.
The_Iron_Joe
Knifemaker, Jeweller. Custom Books Open!
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Respectfully, I don't think that's quite how it works. My understanding of 'traditional' lines up pretty closely with 'classic'...
Wikipedia said:
So while knives may become 'old' or 'outdated', they may not necessarily become a Classic design, nor a Traditional one.
EDIT; so while a traditional view of knives allows ALL knives to be considered traditional [meaning each new knife design is built on one that came before it], I don't think that matches up with what most people think of when they hear 'traditional' when referring to objects or tools.
stabman
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Ah, but how about classics like the original Spyderco Police or Benchmade AFCK?
Hmmm...perhaps there will be sub-categories such as "Traditional Tactical".
The_Iron_Joe
Knifemaker, Jeweller. Custom Books Open!
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Ah, but how about classics like the original Spyderco Police or Benchmade AFCK?
Hmmm...perhaps there will be sub-categories such as "Traditional Tactical".
Probably! Actually, that sort of makes sense. Why not have a traditional tactical knife? It's just as easy to say that the K-Bar is a traditional military / utility / combat knife.
stabman
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Great example! :thumbup:
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Classic? Yes. Vintage? Absolutely!
Traditional? No, I don't think that will happen.
Here's why: slipjoints and fixed-blades were a part of global culture, common to almost everyone on the planet's everyday life at some point in history. They were necessary tools for everyday life, and could be found in the hands of everyone in the family. Pen-knives were common for trimming the quills used for writing before ball-point pens, and harness-knives for the trappings of equine transportation before automobiles. Camp knives before electric can openers, specialty knifes for hand-spinning and carpet-weaving, the list goes on and on. They were necessary tools for daily tasks during a time when rural populations and manual tasks were the rule, rather than the exception.
Now that we're in the age of technology, modern inventions have replaced the old. The current tactical-style knives fill a need, and are popular, but to a very limited portion of the population. They aren't commonly carried by politicians, librarians, boy-scouts, mechanics, tailors..... You get the idea, I'm sure.
I love cutlery of all types, and do believe that today's knives will be treasured. They'll be considered classics, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, but I don't believe they'll ever make the transition to being considered "traditional".
Just my opinion, and I certainly could be wrong. Great topic, btw, I really enjoy reading everyone's responses
Traditional? No, I don't think that will happen.
Here's why: slipjoints and fixed-blades were a part of global culture, common to almost everyone on the planet's everyday life at some point in history. They were necessary tools for everyday life, and could be found in the hands of everyone in the family. Pen-knives were common for trimming the quills used for writing before ball-point pens, and harness-knives for the trappings of equine transportation before automobiles. Camp knives before electric can openers, specialty knifes for hand-spinning and carpet-weaving, the list goes on and on. They were necessary tools for daily tasks during a time when rural populations and manual tasks were the rule, rather than the exception.
Now that we're in the age of technology, modern inventions have replaced the old. The current tactical-style knives fill a need, and are popular, but to a very limited portion of the population. They aren't commonly carried by politicians, librarians, boy-scouts, mechanics, tailors..... You get the idea, I'm sure.
I love cutlery of all types, and do believe that today's knives will be treasured. They'll be considered classics, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, but I don't believe they'll ever make the transition to being considered "traditional".
Just my opinion, and I certainly could be wrong. Great topic, btw, I really enjoy reading everyone's responses