Will you guys vet my sharpening procedure please?

SC_Dave

SC_Dave

Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
187
I have often said that trying to teach someone to sharpen freehand through a forum and videos is like trying to teach someone to drive a car over the phone.

Hardware: DMT DiaSharp plates 8x3 EC-EEF
17 x 2 DLT Paddle strops

Depending on the condition of the edge and whether or not I am changing the profile determines which plate I start with. If I'm not changing the profile I generally start with the F plate working my way to the EF plate and then on to the EEF plate. If the edge is in terrible shape or I'm changing the angle I start with the EC, then to the C and so on. I use water with a small amount of dishwashing liquid in it to help maintain a smooth motion. A side not here. I can maintain my angle pretty well until I get into the belly to tip area. This is where I have the most trouble.

When I leave the EEF plate I start with the green compound from BRK, then on to the white compound from BRK, leaving that I go to the DMT .5 spray. My choices here are based on the published grit size of these compounds. Previously I used the black compound from Bark River prior to the green but I cut that out because it seemed redundant when coming off the EEF plate.

I'm getting a hair shaving edge but I'm not completely satisfied with it (strange I know).

Everything I know about freehand sharpening I have learned from you guys or taught myself through trial and error. You won't hurt my feelings if you tell me what I am doing is all wrong.

Thanks, David
 
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SC_Dave said:
I have often said that trying to teach someone to sharpen freehand through a forum and videos is like trying to teach someone to drive a car over the phone.

Hardware: DMT DiaSharp plates 8x3 EC-EEF
17 x 2 DLT Paddle strops

Depending on the condition of the edge and whether or not I am changing the profile determines which plate I start with. If I'm not changing the profile I generally start with the F plate working my way to the EF plate and then on to the EEF plate. If the edge is in terrible shape or I'm changing the angle I start with the EC, then to the C and so on. I use water with a small amount of dishwashing liquid in it to help maintain a smooth motion. A side not here. I can maintain my angle pretty well until I get into the belly to tip area. This is where I have the most trouble.

When I leave the EEF plate I start with the green compound from BRK, then on to the white compound from BRK, leaving that I go to the DMT .5 spray. My choices here are based on the published grit size of these compounds. Previously I used the black compound from Bark River prior to the green but I cut that out because it seemed redundant when coming off the EEF plate.

I'm getting a hair shaving edge but I'm not completely satisfied with it (strange I know).

Everything I know about freehand sharpening I have learned from you guys or taught myself through trial and error. You won't hurt my feelings if you tell me what I am doing is all wrong.

Thanks, David
Click to expand...

I would consider reducing the amount of stropping to one paddle loaded with 3u or 1u diamond compound. I do not like swapping abrasive types if possible. Also, you might not need to use the EEF on all jobs, the EF makes an edge that you may find to have better character for common usage. Keep the stropping to a minimum. Consider even just stropping with newspaper following the EEF if the steel is not high carbide - you might prefer it to the stropped edges done with compound at that level of finish. They should easily tree top thicker arm hair without needing any stropping.
 
I've never understood why free hand knife sharpening is challenging. It looks straight forward on HH's videos. I watched those and picked up some good tips. Everybody learns different, some need a video, others need to read it with diagrams. DM
 
David Martin said:
I've never understood why free hand knife sharpening is challenging. It looks straight forward on HH's videos. I watched those and picked up some good tips. Everybody learns different, some need a video, others need to read it with diagrams. DM
Click to expand...

I stick to convex edges and using a inch belt sander with a loaded leather belt using the green compound (3 micron i believe). Gets my knives ridiculously sharp to the point to where i can cleanly cut toilet paper and cleanly shave with no tugging.
 
David Martin said:
I've never understood why free hand knife sharpening is challenging. It looks straight forward on HH's videos. I watched those and picked up some good tips. Everybody learns different, some need a video, others need to read it with diagrams. DM
Click to expand...

Maybe you pick things up faster than others, maybe I'm that special kind of dumb you only read about in medical books, I don't know. I just needed a little help......... Which videos of HH's did you watch? I didn't know he had a YT channel.

David
 
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SC_Dave said:
Maybe you pick things up faster than others, maybe I'm that special kind of dumb you only read about in medical books, I don't know. I just needed a little help......... Which videos of HH's did you watch? I didn't know he had a YT channel.

David
Click to expand...

I do have a bunch of videos with tips for maintaining good angle control (Neuman 2010 on youtube), also a bunch of tips in the user manual for the sharpening block I make - free to look at on the website linked below in my signature. This stuff readily translates to diamond plates, waterstones, etc. I'm not terribly gifted in that regard by any means, so have come up with a set of mechanics and strategies that keep the margin of error small. When freehand sharpening, angle control is critical, especially at the higher grit values.
In a nutshell, you can try:
- shortening the length of your pass
- using a scrubbing pass, breaking the edge up into overlapping sections - this will have you maintaining longer contact with the stone and promotes better tactile awareness. On the diamond plates, switch to a leading pass for burr removal. Do not rely on the strop for burr removal.
- apply the offhand fingertips to the edge right where you're working/making contact
- I use a method of pre-loading the wrist so I have to exert a small amount of muscular effort to keep the edge at my target angle. If I loose awareness and drift to a more neutral wrist angle, my edges become more acute, not more obtuse. In practice one will quickly notice any slackening and correct the angle.
- you can also recalibrate the tactile feedback by lowering the spine and making a few light passes on the shoulder, you'll feel the difference in feedback, then elevate the spine till the increased sensation lets off and grind away. Feedback will increase again as you begin to cross the apex.

The key (IMHO) to getting consistent results freehanding comes from learning to recognize tactile feedback, and learning to gain fine control over your angles. The rest is knowing when to make the edge more acute, more obtuse, how toothy or refined the edge should be for a given task, how to deal with stubborn burrs. These are things you can stop and learn at leisure. Feedback and angle control need to be learned in motion - that's why its so difficult to convey.

My last tip is to stick with the coarse and medium grit plates until you feel you've pretty near mastered the edges coming off of them. These edges stropped on a few sheets of paper make for a great EDU edge, maybe a better choice than the high polished edge in many respects anyway. When you do move to the finer plates, your mechanics will be that much better and your edges will be a lot more consistent. If they're not you'll have a much better idea why. This is advice not many give on the forum, but IMHO it will give stronger returns over the longer haul, give you more understanding and control over the process. Best of luck and get back with what you find that helps, new folks are always coming on and a ton of others lurk on here so always a good idea to share your experiences.

Martin
 
HeavyHanded said:
I do have a bunch of videos with tips for maintaining good angle control (Neuman 2010 on youtube), also a bunch of tips in the user manual for the sharpening block I make - free to look at on the website linked below in my signature. This stuff readily translates to diamond plates, waterstones, etc. I'm not terribly gifted in that regard by any means, so have come up with a set of mechanics and strategies that keep the margin of error small. When freehand sharpening, angle control is critical, especially at the higher grit values.
In a nutshell, you can try:
- shortening the length of your pass
- using a scrubbing pass, breaking the edge up into overlapping sections - this will have you maintaining longer contact with the stone and promotes better tactile awareness. On the diamond plates, switch to a leading pass for burr removal. Do not rely on the strop for burr removal.
- apply the offhand fingertips to the edge right where you're working/making contact
- I use a method of pre-loading the wrist so I have to exert a small amount of muscular effort to keep the edge at my target angle. If I loose awareness and drift to a more neutral wrist angle, my edges become more acute, not more obtuse. In practice one will quickly notice any slackening and correct the angle.
- you can also recalibrate the tactile feedback by lowering the spine and making a few light passes on the shoulder, you'll feel the difference in feedback, then elevate the spine till the increased sensation lets off and grind away. Feedback will increase again as you begin to cross the apex.

The key (IMHO) to getting consistent results freehanding comes from learning to recognize tactile feedback, and learning to gain fine control over your angles. The rest is knowing when to make the edge more acute, more obtuse, how toothy or refined the edge should be for a given task, how to deal with stubborn burrs. These are things you can stop and learn at leisure. Feedback and angle control need to be learned in motion - that's why its so difficult to convey.

My last tip is to stick with the coarse and medium grit plates until you feel you've pretty near mastered the edges coming off of them. These edges stropped on a few sheets of paper make for a great EDU edge, maybe a better choice than the high polished edge in many respects anyway. When you do move to the finer plates, your mechanics will be that much better and your edges will be a lot more consistent. If they're not you'll have a much better idea why. This is advice not many give on the forum, but IMHO it will give stronger returns over the longer haul, give you more understanding and control over the process. Best of luck and get back with what you find that helps, new folks are always coming on and a ton of others lurk on here so always a good idea to share your experiences.

Martin
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to write this Martin! I will check out your videos and apply your suggestions and report back. Thank you very much!

David
 
David,

I've learnt a lot from Martin, Jason, Magnanimous, Bluntcut, Unit, Omar, Jackknife, David (OWE) & many more in the past. My biggest issue is always not removing material enough to apex it. Learning to detect burr is one way to check but I've also been fooled by my checking method (fingertips). Having a loupe (10x or more) helps. Especially with aging eyes (I am).

Good luck! It's always good to retrace steps and go back to basics if things not going right.
PS: my touch up nowadays is DMT EEF. Just nice for my use. YMMV ;)
And the learning continues ......
 
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I posted a video here at the request of westib but I removed it because of the poor quality. I'll try posting one later.
David
 
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SC_Dave said:
I posted a video here at the request of westib but I removed it because of the poor quality. I'll try posting one later.
David
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a sharpening video with too poor quality! I finally had some time to check it out.....:)
 
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