wimpy springs

R

rprocter

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i'm getting up towards 300 slippies now, with primary interest being U.S.A., but also lots of German, some British, etc. about 40 % are new, recent purchases and rest older from mint to lightly used.
a general observation is that "older" knives (ex. Case 1980 teardrop apaloosa jack) have much stronger springs. it takes a strong fingernail and good grip to open, and when open needs moderate/strong force to close, moves crisply to 1/2 stop and another firm push and SNAP ! it closes.
most of my recent production ( Case, Bulldog, Boker, + others and especially Queen) have disappointing action. many my 2 1/2 year old daughter can open. they move off the fully open position with light touch; no 1/2 stops, just a sluggish soft close.
WHY ? steel type and tempering could be done to the older standards.
i think most agree that a knife with authoratative spring action is much more satisfying to own, as well as safer (particularly if children are around). the exception is my 10 Rough Rider knives, they all have 1/2 stops and very decent springs. roland
 
I'll have to admit to being a wimp. I've never liked near nail breaker springs on a pocket knife. I figure that the dynamics of the forces while cutting will keep the blade open, but if my hands are wet, making my nails a little softer, or if its some sort of emergency and I'm a little shaky, I really preffer a little easier to open knife. I've gotten rid of knives that I though were a little too tough to open.

I figure Victorinox is a standard to which I match my pocket knives. The old Buck stockman I carried for over 20 years was an easier opening knife, but even after a couple decades of use it still is about the same amount of torque to open and close. I like a crisp action, but it also has to be smooth. The old German Hen and Roosters from the Bertram era were not hard to open, and they were beautifull knives to use. Oddly, the Victorinox made sak's are one of the only knives on the currrent market that rival their smoothness and weight of opening pull.

Besides, being over 60 and having some arthritus, I don't want to fight with my knife to get it open. Well, I guess I'll go have my bedtime snack, and root through the bag of marshmellows to find the tender ones. The others hurt my teeth.:D
 
My hands are not as strong as they once were. Nerve damage (herniated disc), and the accompanying surgery, can make a fellow wimpy :) I like 'em to have some snap, but no nail busters for me.

Rooting for the soft marshmallows....JB ;)
 
Does anyone have/ use an opener? I have seen these from time to time, but never picked one up. I have thought about betting one for the more stubborn knives.
 
I prefer springs on the stiffer side as well.
 
I have to admit, fellows, I like the springs on my (Queen-made) Vintage Knives Model 1902 Moose! It's a real work knife slippie!

Ron
 
I am 35 and in decent shape (that's my story anyway} and I'll have to say that I like a happy medium when it comes to backsprings. I don't like the nailbreakers, however I need to feel a little confidence in the backspring. Like Jacknife says , most of the cutting you do with a slippie (if used correctly) should not require an overly stiff spring in order to function properly and safely.
 
i have the same Vintage Moose and must admit that it is a real exception. i bought a nice Bulldog blade opener for that one, and yes it is a big help.
Jackknife, i'm 61 and one day i'll only be able to play with the "wimps", but am in the unusual position of also having a wonderful little daughter who really enjoys helping daddy with his knife collection. too many times i have turned around to see her holding a knife correctly by the handle, but with the blade open. so i do think at least moderately stiff springs are safer.
i still wonder if weak springs are just sloppy manufacturing technique, or purposeful because that's the way consumer demand is perceived. roland
 
rprocter said:
i still wonder if weak springs are just sloppy manufacturing technique, or purposeful because that's the way consumer demand is perceived. roland
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Maybe a mix of both, depending on manufacturer. Many years ago a friend and I did a little experiment just for yuks. We had between us and a few other buds, almost a dozen Victorinox sak's of different models. Dan rigged up a thin wire noose that went over the blade and witha small torque wrench measured how many foot pounds it took to pull open Victorinox sak blade. They were all within a fraction of a pound of one another. Different sak's, of different vintages. that bespeaks of very fine quality control of the manufacture prosses.

We tried to duplicate the experiment with American pocket knives of the same general size, and they were all over the place as far as pounds of force needed to open.

I guess thats why I feel that Victorinox is sort of my personal standard of QA. Springs not too heavy, not too light.
 
Victorinox are very consistent. I like the spring tension on my Solo Alox, if it had a half stop I'd be tickled.
 
I have actually bent over a thumb-nail opening a recalcitrant knife & it's a nauseating experience! So I'm not keen on resorting to pliers to open a knife....
 
The shape of the tang has a lot to do with it as well as the power of the springs. I like a knife that takes more force to start closing from an open position, ie won't start closing at the slightest blip, but also like one that is fairly easy to open. My thumbnails are fairly thin and brittle, breaking easily on some of those nail buster knives. If the knife maker shapes the tang correctly, they can make it where there is less force on the spring at the start of opening and increasing force as the blade gets closer to open. Sort of an "eccentric" cam shaped tang, instead of purely rounded.
 
Phil, that's an educational explanation for me. too bad current U.S. manufacturers don't make the effort to get that part of the knife blade consistently "right on". you can't beat the imports on price point, so beat them with consistent high quality. or is it a case that if you can't market it in "walmart" you can't survive ? (for the larger companies anyway).
would like to hear from an owner or senior exec. of a knife company about this.
roland
 
Most of the mass produced knives have blades with stamped tangs, stamped as part of the blanking process. You can look at most of them and see where the dies came together, as there will be a line or ridge in the steel showing. Some of them are polished better than others, and I would guess that some of the cutlers are better at fitting the parts than others. That's one of the reasons I don't like buying knives sight unseen, I'd rather feel how they operate first. You can pick up ten knives of any pattern, and look at the fit of the tangs and springs, all of them will look different from one another. MOST of them work fine, but I will pick up quite a few to try that you can hold in one hand and hit the blade sping with a single finger on the other hand and they will fold. That's too weak for me. If the tang is shaped right, they will move slightly under pressure, but hop right back to the open position. I have tried a couple before that immediately snapped completely shut at a slight press on the blade spine. After get cut a couple of times, I learned to keep those fingers out of the way! :eek:
 
Ron53 said:
I...I like the springs on my (Queen-made) Vintage Knives Model 1902 Moose! It's a real work knife slippie!...
Click to expand...

rprocter said:
...i have the same Vintage Moose and must admit that it is a real exception. i bought a nice Bulldog blade opener for that one, and yes it is a big help...
Click to expand...

This is the one that made me realize what a wimp I was. I tried every trick you guys suggested and nothing seem to make much difference. I just could not open it consistently. I sold it with full disclosure to the buyer that it was a bear to open. I hated to let it go because I really did like it. Life can be unfair like that when you are a wimp.:D
 
I think as others have mentioned that victorinox has the right strength springs for my liking. All the case knives I've had have been pretty good, none to week a couple that were a little strong.
 
The only knife I ever parted with because it was too hard to open was a Case 6308 pattern whittler, a pattern notitoriously known as nail buster.
 
I have strong enough thumbnails, but ten years ago I had to exchange a large Case trapper for another because the blades were hard as heck to open at all. The second one was still really strong, but nonetheless very operable. My red bone canoe also has strong backsprings, but in a good way. As does my new mini-trapper.

My favorite balance of spring strength/maneuverability is my Victorinox Pioneer and my 2nd Soldier. My first Soldier has a main blade that, during closing, will pull/snap closed before the blade reaches 1/2 to closing...too smoothe and too much pull combined.
Jim
 
Hey, its Christmas time everyone. All our fingernails are killing us right about now.Mine are anyways.
 
I have a Boker Copperhead that almost feels like it has no springs and a couple of Great Eastern Cutlery Un-X-ld Scouts that are almost nail breakers. All my Cases are right on the money. All these knives are new production, purchased in the past couple of years.
 
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