Winchester Black Box Knife Scale Material

[riversidedep]

Can anyone tell me what the scales on this knife are made of? I've had this knife for 15 or 20 years. It was pristine when I got it, but I started having problems with the blades corroding around 10 years ago. I stored it in the box and assumed it was the red felt-like stuff outgassing and causing the corrosion. The blades had been coated with Renaissance Wax prior to storage, and I also tried oil, but nothing would stop the corrosion. I've kept it out of it's box on my desk, and used it as a desk knife for the last five years. I wipe it down every couple of months, but the corrosion continues. I'm starting to think the scales might be celluloid, but I think this knife was made in the 1990s or late 1980s, and I didn't think anyone still used celluloid by that time. Also, the scales don't look like they are breaking down or shrinking.

Sorry for the poor photos, but I'm taking these at night in my house. I tried to show the character of the scales as well as the corrosion. Keep in mind that I took these photos after using flizt on the corroded spots, and there was active orange rust.

 

[riversidedep]

The scales are smooth but there is some depth or translucency to them. Hopefully it shows in the photos.

 

[riversidedep]

Well, that second set of photos is worse than the first.

I give up!

 

[Arathol]

Looks to me like whats called waterfall celluloid.

 

[tltt]

Just agreeing, waterfall celluloid. They offered it around 1993-95 or so. A lot of the old BG Winchesters and Case Classics are having serious problems with outgassing now. it's a very pretty knife, I think you could rehandle it in something like yellow micarta and not lose much lookswise.

 

[black mamba]

Keeping it in the box is the WORST thing you can do. Leave it out completely in the open on top of a desk somewhere it can get a lot of air flow.
Unfortunately it will only get worse no matter what you do.

 

[afishhunter]

The corrosion pattern (exposed above the blade well) screams "outgassing celluloid!"

Agree with not storing in the box or any other closed container.

Also agree with having it recovered ... if your budget can handle it, or do the recover yourself without taking the knife apart.
Recover with whatever material you like. Micarta; G-10; Acrylic; Natural materials ... its all good.
If you do it yourself, you can super glue the new covers on.
Pinned is great, but requires the knife be taken apart. I don't know if you have the tools to take apart and put back together, or if you would be comfortable doing so.

 

[riversidedep]

I appreciate all the quick replies. So, as suspected, it is celluloid. That explains a lot. As I said, the knife was pristine when I bought it, and I have never carried it. I have numerous different brands of knives, including Queen, Shatt & Morgan, Case, Buck, Schrade, Camillus, Kabar, GEC, etc., and these scales are among, if not the prettiest, I own. I used to think they were polished micarta until I started suspecting celluloid due to the corrosion.

I will have to find someone to replace the scales. I don't have the skills. It is a really nice knife. The blades are very nicely ground and very thin, and it cuts like a laser. I also like the pinched bolsters, and I (used to) like the scales! If the blades had half-stops, I would consider this to be one of my nicest pocket knives.

I have to say I am really surprised to learn that celluloid was still being used in the 1990s!

 

[dsutton24]

Yeah, it's a shame. Celluloid can be beautiful, but like any other beauty it can be more trouble than it's worth. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that 'modern celluloid' is stable, and I can tell you with certainty how many knives I've had run away. I've adopted an enjoy it while it lasts philosophy.

Anyone who is interested in celluloid should read up on the subject of movie preservation, there are a lot of parallels. Movies produced during the opening years of the last century were never meant to survive beyond a few screenings. Film preservation really became a passion in recent decades, and it's a labor of love for the people who do it. Preserving the original celluloid means sub-zero storage, and even then it's a temporary proposition at best.

 

[sceva]

That is a shame. It's the main reason I have no celluloid scaled knives. beautiful stuff but it's a matter of when not if it will start disintegrating.

Do NOT store it near other knives, it's a waste of time to try to preserve it; instead get someone to re-handle it.

You can find a lot of these modern celluloid knives on ebay, Boker, Bulldog, fighting Rooster, Winchester et all. Some are still nice but a lot of them show definite outgassing and deterioration. They usually are accompanied with a description to the effect of " Some staining or light corrosion, should clean up nicely"

 

[Rookie82]

I got rid of all celluloid knives a few years back, and make a point of not buying. A shame, because they are so attractive. Seems the Queen made Winchesters and Case Classics, and the German Bulldogs all have the worst celluloid there is in terms of outgassing. Hope you can get it rehandled and continue to enjoy your knife.