Windows Vista Upgrade story

[gnius]

As I have now gotten past my no-income college days (and into the almost-no-income grad school days) I thought I'd do the responsible thing, and ensure that ALL the software I use is legit.

Now, on the laptop I use for work, I have been using Ubuntu Linux for over 2 years now, with great success and satisfaction. However, my desktop, which gets used for games, was using Windows XP.

I was upgrading the desktop, and decided to purchase Windows Vista. I purchased the Windows Vista 64 bit Ultimate Upgrade directly from Microsoft via the student deal ($65). I moved my XP Home (licensed) from my laptop to my desktop, and decided to run the upgrade.

Alas, the upgrade refused to run, which prompted me to google the error... and came up with the following conclusion:

In order to run the Vista 64 upgrade, I had to already have Vista 64 installed (or Windows 2003 64 bit server, I guess).

No, I am not kidding.

After much research I realized that:
1. Microsoft is aware of the issue (hundreds of complaints)
2. They have absolutely no interest in resolving it.

After several hours of doing research, consulting the tech forums, downloading utilities, and modifying the installation files, I was finally able to get the install files into a bootable DVD that would let me run the installation (due to a faulty motherboard, I am not sure whether it will be successful yet, but we'll see in a couple of days).

As a conclusion, given what Microsoft is willing to put its paying customers through (and don't get me started on the quality of Vista itself), I would highly advocate that unless you absolutely MUST have Windows, you should really consider the fast, effortless and capable Linux systems that are now available from major manufacturers (and did I mention, cheaper...?) such as from www.dell.com/ubuntu.

 

[shootist16]

I have heard nothing good about Vista. My next computer will not have it.

 

[jonnymac44]

I recently got a new laptop from Dell. Overall I'm happy with the computer itself, but when ordering I noticed that Vista was included in the cost, but if I wanted to have it come with XP, the OLDER OS, then it was going to be an extra $150 bucks!!:grumpy: So I decided to give the new operating system a go. I should have dropped the $150 extra to get it with XP.

Microsoft, definitely a love/hate relationship with me. I love many of their products, but hate the way they treat the consumer. They view it as a love/hate relationship as well. They LOVE all the money they get from us, but they hate to lift a finger to help the very people who have made them rich!

I don't have a solution, this is just my rant.

Good luck
jon

 

[sawyersam]

When you consider that Windows Vista has to constantly update itself and the architecture itself encourages other software to make incursions (take control of) into your computer is it any wonder we are having exponential problems with spyware, viruses, trojan horses and other malware? When you switch to Linux right off the bat you save $100 and you acquire the ability to decide what you allow into your computer. One of the big problems with Windows Vista 64 is your older 32 bit programs may not work.

 

[shootist16]

Can Linux run windows programs? Could I run Microsoft office, etc., on it? Therein lies the rub. I need something to be compatible. I do want to find an alternatiove as I do not want Vista on my next computer.

 

[Josh K]

Can Linux run windows programs? Could I run Microsoft office, etc., on it? Therein lies the rub. I need something to be compatible. I do want to find an alternatiove as I do not want Vista on my next computer.

Couple of options. You're best, and easiest bet is to wait till the next version of windows. I've heard (abait, very few) good responses from Vista, and the beta of Windows 7.

Barring windows, go with a Mac. Get the $90 copy of CrossOver and run that. You'll love it.

If you want to keep your current machine, get a copy of Ubuntu (free) and then get Wine and OpenOffice. OpenOffice does everything MS Office can, but for free on GNU/Linux platforms.

 

[gnius]

Can Linux run windows programs? Could I run Microsoft office, etc., on it? Therein lies the rub. I need something to be compatible. I do want to find an alternatiove as I do not want Vista on my next computer.

Firstly, Open Office 3.0 is a great alternative to Microsoft Office, and is largely compatible. You can open, edit, and save MS Office files very easily in Open Office. If you must, you can even set it to save files in MS Office formats by default. You can experience Open Office on Windows and Mac as well, before taking the plunge.

But if you absolutely MUST have MS Office on Linux, you CAN actually run it, using Codeweavers' "CrossOver Office" software suite that will allow you to run MS Office, Adobe Photoshop, and a number of other professional windows software programs, on Linux.

For the vast majority of users, however, their attachment to Microsoft products comes out of resistance to change, rather than any real need, since for the vast majority of users, open source alternatives are perfectly sufficient in terms of features and ease of use.

The only Windows software for which there are no solutions at all in Linux, are DirectX games (most 3D games on the market), by the virtue of Linux not having DirectX, which is a proprietary Microsoft API.

I have helped about a dozen people switch now, and few have had problems, including some older, less technologically apt people.

 

[ChadHahn]

I agree that Open Office is good. My daughter's pediatrician also runs it on their office Macs.

Chad

 

[avidknifeusersf]

I'm guessing you know, 64 bit will only work on computers with other 64 bit OS to maintain compatability... I didnt think XP had 64 bit support, and most of your programs probably dont, so it will make it unstable... and I assume you know you need 4gb of ram min to use...

 

[jkarp_53]

Having just purchased a local-built PC I had the option of Vista Home or XP-Pro, which I purchased for an extra $50 and am glad I did. So many friends said to stay away from Vista with their reasons for it...It's been a month now and I have not had a single crash.

When Windows 7 comes out, I'm going to think about it and completely bypass the Vista "experience".

So typical of Microsoft to put a product out that causes headaches for so many people...:thumbdn:

 

[SPXTrader]

Windows does have a XP 64 bit program. But it's not a compatable upgrade from a 32 bit program. Same way with Vista.

Look for Vista to go out the window (pun intended) when 7 is refined and launched. It's a bad OS and MS knows this. Another ME. I won't build a computer for a friend if they want Vista. I ran the beta on one of my machines and it's junk. XP will still be maintained for another 10 to 15 years.

 

[jerrinfla]

I'm guessing you know, 64 bit will only work on computers with other 64 bit OS to maintain compatability... I didnt think XP had 64 bit support, and most of your programs probably dont, so it will make it unstable... and I assume you know you need 4gb of ram min to use...

Believe it or not, you don't need 4 gb of ram to run Vista. I downloaded an ISO of Vista 64 ultimate and installed it on an old AMD socket A box I have here with 512 MB of ram and an AMD 2800+ and it ran about the same speed that XP 32 bit ran at.
Vista has a few extras in it. You can burn DVD data disks without any extra software. You can even burn movie disks from .AVI files. I burned a non commercial video of a Hank Williams II concert with Vista, and it played fine on my standalone DVD player.
However, the end of each .avi file returned to the root menu, so it was not nearly as good as using aftermarket software. However, for just backing of DVDs of your own files from the hard drive it's fine - no extra softare needed. I ripped one of my CDs and burned a copy to use in my car. Worked fine using nothing more than Windows Media Player. Media Player in XP is not very good at ripping and burning your own CDs.

As far as your older 32 bit programs, if you know how to find the executable file you are running for a game or whatever, if you browse to it and right click on the file name, Vista will bring up a properties menu, including a Compatibility tab, in which you can select for that program to run in a Windows XP compatibility mode. Worked fine for me with a few programs that I did not expect to run in Vista at all. But they ran just fine.

Vista Ultimate will support up to 128 gigabytes of ram. That is a LOT! Windows XP 32 bit only supports 3-1/2 gigabytes of ram. Actually, that's all that any 32 bit versions of XP or Vista will use.

Vista 64 bit Home Premium will use up to 16 gigabytes of ram. You can find motherboards right now that can use 16 gigabytes of PC6400 ram and are relatively inexpensive. I'm not aware of any that can use more than 16 gigabytes of ram, but if you have Vista Ultimate you'll have an operating system that will be able to keep up with your motherboard a good way into the future.
Vista Home Premium and Ultimate also come with a pretty good chess game built in.

As far as Linix goes, I've run Linux on live boot CDs, and while I was amazed that you could get so much functionality booting from a cd, it was clunkier than windows. Selecting files and directories couldn't use CTRL or5 Shift keys to select a large number of files at once. And I was not able to print to my HP laserjet 4P printer. But other than that, web connectivity and browsing and web mail required no input from me whatsoever, it just worked. Strangely enough, you could say it worked as easily as XP. I like to rag on Microsoft myself, but for the most part, except for them drastically changing the interface from version to version and taking more and more control away from the user, it works pretty easily. I think most distros of Linux corrently out already come with Open Office included. New Linux distros might have better support for printers and wireless internet than the last time I played with it. Even last year I was amazed that Linux recognized a USB attached hard drive or USB drive just like plug and play in Windows.

If you try going with Linux you ought to download your distro and burn it to a CD beforehand. If you buy it in a box (I did that a few years ago) all you are paying for is a box with a thin manual that tells you when to click on "Yes" during the install. It was absolutely wasted money. Linux is totally free unless you need to pay for support. If you have a spare computer to look fon the internet for answers to any problems you have, you don't need to buy a support package from anyone. There's a great internet community for finding out how to make it work.

I do think that Windows will always be able to do things you aren't going to be able to do in Linux, though, even using Wine. Of course, Linux might do everything you want to do anyway.

 

[uncle Alan]

[


After much research I realized that:
1. Microsoft is aware of the issue (hundreds of complaints)
2. They have absolutely no interest in resolving it.




As a conclusion, given what Microsoft is willing to put its paying customers through,I'd run in another direction.

My major complaints are not remembering addresses n& returning messages telling me my friend has no correct address.

Burns my ass higher'n a 3 ' flame.

Screw me once...


Uncle [disgruntled ] Alan :thumbdn:

 

[gnius]

As far as Linix goes, I've run Linux on live boot CDs, and while I was amazed that you could get so much functionality booting from a cd, it was clunkier than windows.

Certainly you can't expect the same speed from running an operating system from a CD than from a hard drive?!

Selecting files and directories couldn't use CTRL or5 Shift keys to select a large number of files at once.

I've yet to encounter any Linux distribution that DOESN'T have that feature.

And I was not able to print to my HP laserjet 4P printer.

I've been using Ubuntu for 2 years, and it's not only been able to print from every printer, but also recognize printers across the (windows) network, connect, download the drivers automatically, and auto-configure in half the time of windows.

But other than that, web connectivity and browsing and web mail required no input from me whatsoever, it just worked. Strangely enough, you could say it worked as easily as XP.

Linux on the Desktop has made great strides in the last 3-4 years, and is now often easier to plug-and-play on, compared to Windows.

I like to rag on Microsoft myself, but for the most part, except for them drastically changing the interface from version to version and taking more and more control away from the user, it works pretty easily.

Well, not only that, but weighing the system down drastically from version to version.

As far as control to the user, this is probably a topic for another thread, but suffice it to say that once you see what real control is like, you can never really take Windows seriously anymore.

Just a little anecdote:
- Windows has 3 access settings: User, Administrator, and System.

"System" always prevails over the "Administrator" - which means it will refuse to let you delete files, stop processes, etc... etc... By default, Windows will protect itself, rather than let you manage it.

In Linux, a "root" user can go ahead and delete the entire OS. It will crash somewhere in the middle, but it will make damn sure it really tries to do what you tell it.

I think most distros of Linux corrently out already come with Open Office included. New Linux distros might have better support for printers and wireless internet than the last time I played with it. Even last year I was amazed that Linux recognized a USB attached hard drive or USB drive just like plug and play in Windows.

You really should try Ubuntu 8.10. It is likely to surprise you, given your previous experiences.

If you try going with Linux you ought to download your distro and burn it to a CD beforehand. If you buy it in a box (I did that a few years ago) all you are paying for is a box with a thin manual that tells you when to click on "Yes" during the install. It was absolutely wasted money.

Actually, it's free from Dell as well. And you get the benefit of having all your hardware certified to have proper Linux drivers. Not only that, but you provide essential statistics for showing how Linux is gaining desktop share, which benefits competition and thus the consumer.

I do think that Windows will always be able to do things you aren't going to be able to do in Linux, though, even using Wine.

Maybe yes, maybe no. In the current economic climate, people are pretty stingy, and with the proliferation of inexpensive netbooks, paying $100 for windows on top of a $250 device might not seem so easy. And when enough market share is gained, programmers and device makers will notice.

Of course, Linux might do everything you want to do anyway.

Which is the ultimate point.

The default installation of something like Ubuntu will already have ALL the software that an average computer software user will need... and more.

- Office Software (Word Processors, Spreadsheet, Presentation)
- Image Software (Draw, Photo Editing, Photo Organizing)
- Multimedia (Movie, Music Players and Organizers)
- Email/Messaging (Mail/Calendar/Address book software, Instant Messenger)
- Web (Browser and Extensions)

For 90%+ of Web users, the above is more that sufficient, even without tapping into the vast software resources that are available online (an Add/Remove software suite that can actually ADD software, what do you know!)

 

[Bufford]

I was running Windows XP 64 bit. It ran okay, but there were conflicts with 32 bit software and that it had to run in the mainly 32 bit internet world.

After almost 3 years of using it I upgraded to Vista home premium 32 bit. It runs, but it seems very unstable and the system crashed after only 2 days and I had no choice but to reformat and start over.

Its been running for a couple weeks now, and micro soft's updates have been pouring in steady. For some reason this PC wanted to download Micro Soft's service 1 pack 3 or 4 times.

I seem to have to fiddle with the computer more than I get to actually use this thing. I have had it with Microsoft.

The next machine will be a Mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[avidknifeusersf]

more than I get to actually use this thing. I have had it with Microsoft.

The next machine will be a Mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont do that... go back to xp, go to linux... Mac are really only good for insulated networks where all the work will be done on macs.

I still have no idea how macs have managed to get the reputation they have. Go check out the help line at your local mac store, I had to stand in line their recently it blew. Then theres the overpriced hardware... and the aforemention lack of compatability... yes no matter what anyone tells you, that really exists.

 

[gnius]

Dont do that... go back to xp, go to linux... Mac are really only good for insulated networks where all the work will be done on macs.

I still have no idea how macs have managed to get the reputation they have. Go check out the help line at your local mac store, I had to stand in line their recently it blew. Then theres the overpriced hardware... and the aforemention lack of compatability... yes no matter what anyone tells you, that really exists.

To be fair to Macs, they've got several very positive characteristics:

1. Their hardware design is second to none. Very utilitarian and minimalistic.
2. Mac OS is great for people who are not used to the way things are done in other OSs, and is stable, secure, and easy-enough. It really does "just work".
3. Mac OS is the only OS I have used that has gotten power management right. My fiance's macbook can be used intermittently and sleep for as long as 3 days, with probably <10 seconds from open to usable. Both XP and Linux have significant problems with their power management. Maybe Vista is better... but I haven't had a chance to use Vista on a laptop.

 

[Josh K]

Dont do that... go back to xp, go to linux... Mac are really only good for insulated networks where all the work will be done on macs.

I still have no idea how macs have managed to get the reputation they have. Go check out the help line at your local mac store, I had to stand in line their recently it blew. Then theres the overpriced hardware... and the aforemention lack of compatability... yes no matter what anyone tells you, that really exists.

I'd love to know what you think is a "lack of compatability." My MacBook is more compatible with my devices and networks then any other OS I've seen (Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, XP, Vista). How long does it take to get your windows laptop fixed? Can you just walk into a Dell store? My experience says no. Make an appointment (online, or in-store) for a fix, upgrade, question, whatever, and you'll get that time slot. It's simple, easy, fast, oh yes, FREE.

Mac's do "just work". It's the perfect midline between hard core "sudo app-get" in Linux to dumbed down windows. The power of Unix with a very stable and developed operating system.

The hardware is not overpriced. It's like buying a Benchmade or Spyderco compared to a Gerber, or a plastic packed knife you got from Target. You're paying for quality and performance. Not sure about you, but I'd take S30V over 420JS or simply "Surgical Stainless" any day.

My moving over to an Intel chipset, you can also run just about anything on the mac. Windows, Mac OS, Linux. It's fully compatible and works with all of them. Crossover, BootCamp, VMWare Fusion.

 

[jerrinfla]

Certainly you can't expect the same speed from running an operating system from a CD than from a hard drive?!

I've yet to encounter any Linux distribution that DOESN'T have that feature.

Last time I ran linux it was to recover & burn data files from my nephews windows box to a CD, when windows would not boot into safe mode. I didn't expect the OS to run as fast as it would were it installed on the hard drive. I was referring to using shift-left click to select a group of files and ctrl-left click to add or remove a file from a selected list. Didn't work. That was using an older verion of Knoppix Live I had laying around.[/QUOTE]

I've been using Ubuntu for 2 years, and it's not only been able to print from every printer, but also recognize printers across the (windows) network, connect, download the drivers automatically, and auto-configure in half the time of windows.

Linux on the Desktop has made great strides in the last 3-4 years, and is now often easier to plug-and-play on, compared to Windows. .

Last time I installed Linux on a hard drive here it was Mandrake 8.2.That was quite a while back. The Knoppix Live disk I used for my nephews PC recognized quite a bit more hardware than the old version of Mandrake but still wouldn't use my HP4 laser.

You really should try Ubuntu 8.10. It is likely to surprise you, given your previous experiences.

I'm glad to see your reply. I actually have Ubuntu 8.04.1 which has been burned on a CD waiting for me to pick out a motherboard for a box I'm in the processing of putting together. I probably would have checked for a newer version once I have this system together, but I might not have. Did 8.10 clear up the headaches a lot of people with integrated ATI graphics a lot of people were having?

Actually, it's free from Dell as well. And you get the benefit of having all your hardware certified to have proper Linux drivers. Not only that, but you provide essential statistics for showing how Linux is gaining desktop share, which benefits competition and thus the consumer.

I meant that I box a distro of Linux in a box on the software shelves in CompUSA a long time ago. The included "manual" which is what I actually paid for was nothing more than a walkthrough of the install process, and nothing about using the operating system itself. I would have been much better off downloading it than buying it in the packaging.

Maybe yes, maybe no. In the current economic climate, people are pretty stingy, and with the proliferation of inexpensive netbooks, paying $100 for windows on top of a $250 device might not seem so easy. And when enough market share is gained, programmers and device makers will notice.

Which is the ultimate point.

The default installation of something like Ubuntu will already have ALL the software that an average computer software user will need... and more.

- Office Software (Word Processors, Spreadsheet, Presentation)
- Image Software (Draw, Photo Editing, Photo Organizing)
- Multimedia (Movie, Music Players and Organizers)
- Email/Messaging (Mail/Calendar/Address book software, Instant Messenger)
- Web (Browser and Extensions)

For 90%+ of Web users, the above is more that sufficient, even without tapping into the vast software resources that are available online (an Add/Remove software suite that can actually ADD software, what do you know!)

I'm not a gamer, but I don't think gamers fare that well with Linux now if they want to play Windows games. Making backups of your movie collection would be rather problematic too, I imagine. As far as image editing software, what I've seen was no where near as functional using photoshop or paint shop pro. I'll have Ubuntu running on a box here a bit after the black friday hardware sales and see what the new distro looks like.

 

[gnius]

I'm not a gamer, but I don't think gamers fare that well with Linux now if they want to play Windows games.

No, that's the one aspect of switching that has prevented me from abandoning Windows altogether.

However, Codeweavers, the same people who brought out the "CrossOver Office" suite, have also worked on "Cedega" which is a WINE-based gaming suite, which can run MANY of the latest Windows games, some faster than they run on Windows.

Making backups of your movie collection would be rather problematic too, I imagine.

If you're referring to the DeCSS licensing mess, there are two answers to that:
1. If you don't mind skirting the badly written law, downloading the right codecs is a matter of 15 seconds.
2. Dell Ubuntu PCs come "with mp3 and DVD playback", since Dell paid the licensing (extortion) fees for legit use of these codecs.

As far as image editing software, what I've seen was no where near as functional using photoshop or paint shop pro.

GIMP is pretty good. It's certainly been sufficient for me. One can even download "GIMPShop" which will rearrange all the menus to make it friendly to Photoshop users.

I'll have Ubuntu running on a box here a bit after the black friday hardware sales and see what the new distro looks like.

I just got another convert, and he seems very happy with 8.10.

I am still running 8.04 here, but it appears that there are a lot of very useful features in 8.10, and a number of long-overdue bug fixes.