Winter car survival

RoyalM

RoyalM

Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
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I wanted to pick the brains of the community here for their thoughts on winter survival in a car. I watched Survivorman, the Norway episode, and thought there must be things he could've done to improve the car as a ready made shelter. I know a car is a poor shelter due to insulation but my question is:

If you buried your car in snow, similar to a quincy construction, would this make for a better shelter in terms of insulation and could you then stay there longer?

Obviously you'd want to keep certain areas clear: an entrance door, the exhaust and the front of the car so you could signal with lights and allow air into the engine.
 
What usually gets people frozen is when they venture out in blizzard conditions and miss a turn or drift into a deep ditch. In those cases where it is as bad as it gets the ability to exit the car can be gone with snow up over the doors. You can be stuck way down in a ditch and the wind can drift you over quicker than you can get out, it happens here so daring the ice giants is no game. Cold temps, CO and injuries are all part of the danger. In no circumstance would I recommend piling snow up onto your car, that can keep you from being seen by other drivers or from the air if you have been missing for much time. Smart folks here in MN keep their winter blankets, candles, junk food candy bars and charged cell phones ready in case they end up stuck in the snow. If you can open a window to keep some fresh air then candles can keep the temp in the car warmer than the outside.

It is now uncommon to be driving in winter weather and have clear open roads then come up to an area where the wind is blowing snow in white out condition and visibility is zip. That will shrink your sphincter when you come into a spot like that at a normal highway speed.
 
Insulation - lots.
Water (+ pot and fire-starter)
Food
Signaling (whistle; cell-phone)
Good flashlight

A buddy in northern Wisconsin carries a fishing rod to keep an air hole open through snow. (But he would be attacked by some for not using the "right tool.")
 
If you had a consistent wind direction, then adding snow to the windward side would help retain heat. That said, you may wake up to find you are totally drifted in. It would take a lot of work to bury the car, so I'm not sure that just covering a bit of it would be worth the effort.

However, if you no longer were able to use the engine, then fully burying the car might be a great option, or bury three sides, and reflect fire heat into the fourth? If you kept a tire or two available for your signal fire, then you have a good option for visibility. Otherwise you have to be religious about keeping the top of your car clean to have any hope of being seen from the air(unless your car is white).

There are a lot of factors involved. But to be honest, moving enough snow to bury a car is going to take a massive amount of effort, and if you are trying to conserve calories, there are better, easier options. And from having seen pranks involving burying cars, it takes a surprising amount of snow to actually do that.

Also in my experience, areas with light fluffy and easy to shovel snow, tend to be warmer, and cooler areas have hard, icy wind-driven snow. (unless its really warm when it snowed, then you get the heavy, wet "heart-attack" snow) So in an area where you have greater need for the insulation, the snow is less likely to be ideal.

So if you had slid off a reasonably well traveled road after dark, and the snow was falling, and you knew that there was little danger of being hit (by another car or snowplow) then the best idea might be to let the car get buried overnight, helping keep you warm, then figuring things out in the daylight, instead of trying to dig yourself out in the dark, and moving all the of insulating snow away from the car, when its unlikely you are going to move without help. This means you probably can't use the engine overnight, (but you shouldn't sleep with the engine running anyway)

Just thinking about it, there are so many factors at play here. Its hard to know what would be the best thing to do. But there are a few things I have experienced.
Cars actually need very little air to run, but they do need some, and the best way to block the air is with a wet/snow-filled air-filter. If there is a chance that your air filter is wet, and you can get it out, then that will help. (be careful though, the airflow sensors are very important, and damage to them may keep the car from running at all, making this exercise pointless)
Blocking as much of the grill as possible helps as well, as you want to keep as much heat in the engine bay as you can. In fact, if you can hear the electric fan under the hood kick in, that means you are wasting heat through the radiator. The heater core of most cars is between the engine and the thermostat, so you want all the heat coming into the car, and none going into the radiator, if you can help it. Also be careful if there is any chance you damaged the radiator or hoses. in which case, running the engine is a waste of time, as the heat won't be transferred into the car. In a powerstroke F350, with an unblocked grill, and a -40 wind head on, the temp gauge won't even move at idle.
Most recommendations I've seen say run 15 minutes out of every hour. Lets say for the sake of argument that a full tank will let you idle for 24 hours. (the F250s and 350s I drove in the far north would do between 24 and 48 to a full tank) but that means that with the 15 on 45 off, 1/4 tank is only one day of fuel. However, fully warming the engine isn't helping you, so I would (assuming you have a good and trustworthy battery) run the car more often, for less time. Starting when the temp inside drops, and only running until the temp gauge moves on the dash. Running the heater fan without the engine running doesn't do much, since the water-pump isn't moving water, and it should only take a couple of minutes to top-charge the battery. My theory is that by keeping everything at a cooler average temp, but running more often, you avoid stressing the battery, as well as wasting heat.
Now if you have a Wabaso, or Espar heater, then its easy since those use hardly any fuel, and you'd only need to run the engine every few hours to charge the battery, and hang out in comfort.

Getting a bit long winded. Lots of things to think about, and since its 30*c out now, thinking about snowdrifts is a nice change...
 
I think you'd be better off with a reflector blanket, red on one side, reflective mylar on the other, on top of the car to be seen. I don't have a good feeling about burying a car. I'd want to wrap warm clothes / blankets around me to keep warm, not around the car.
 
I have wool blankets, tarps, shovel, first aid, duct tape, knife, hand warmers, and two extra pairs each of wool gloves, wool hats, and scarves, candles, matches, center punch, multi tool, flashlight with lithium batteries, 200 watt inverter.
 
Smash05 said:
I have wool blankets, tarps, shovel, first aid, duct tape, knife, hand warmers, and two extra pairs each of wool gloves, wool hats, and scarves, candles, matches, center punch, multi tool, flashlight with lithium batteries, 200 watt inverter.
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Assuming the two blankets = two layers of blanket, that adds about 20f to your clothing. Is that enough?
 
I was reading a study that was published the other day. I found it interesting that sites like this give staying in the car bad press, yet by far it is the safe choice. When things go wrong and one person goes for help more times than not that person dies and the person that stayed with the car survives. In many cases the person moving away from the car died rather quickly (less than a mile) while the person that stayed in the car survived days. I vote for blankets, sleeping bags, candles, hand warmers, and food and water (half filled bottles). If there is more than one person in the car it just adds that much more heat.

I do a lot of winter walking and have over the years. Even in temperatures that are borderline survivable it is really easy to get in to trouble. Add very cold temps and high winds in a bad area and you're simply not going to make it regardless of what anyone tells you. If the temps are somewhat reasonable and you have experience building lean to shelters and fires and have access to a ton of wood...You're probably still better staying in the car. :)
 
A few wool blankets, 4 good 9 hour candles, water in winter canteens to try and keep it in liquid form, flashlight and extra batteries, small transistor radio with extra batteries, cans of chicken and tuna, a box of power bars/ granola bars and a small first aid kit with basic pain and cold/flu meds.
A snow shovel, bag of kitty litter a piece of carpet for under the tires, a dozen road flares.
Some small propane cylinders and a propane camp stove with two small pots, a coffee pot, tin plates and cups and canned chow.
A charged cell phone with a solar charger.
Extra hat's , gloves, windproof pants, wooly pullys and wool socks.
Tarp ponchos.

Let people know where you are going and when. Let the sno-mobilers know where to look for your route, especially when you HAVE to go and it's a blizzard out there.

Just my 2 cents,
Here near Buffalo, NY
We just got 2'-4' of snow over the holidays and then 20" the last two days, it's sunny now and allegedly 35F, shorts weather...lol, for the weekend.

A buried car is a tomb.

Get someplace warmer, if you have to temporarily shelter in the vehicle because it's just too horrible outside, make it a micro-climate as much as possible, burning 1 small candle in an old tuna can and wearing a blanket with the CLEARED window slightly cracked open will get you through the storm, usually, then get thee somewhere warmer.

Mark
 
You need to keep the car as visible as possible for rescuers to see. That includes the sides, and top of the car. Signal panel on top, burning tires trash for smoke signal, make yourself as visible as possible. If the engine is dead the hood up to create more visual cues to rescuers.
 
If you are prepared with the things people have mentioned staying in the car might be your best bet but that might only work till a certain temperature. With temperatures around -60f and depending on your location you might have to venture out for help because you will die without it. Happened to my brother inlaws friends dad when he went ice fishing. Their truck broke down and his friend and him were stranded. I don't know what they had with them but they were going ice fishing so they were probably dressed pretty warm. They burnt tires and everything they could and one would walk out in a direction then come straight back if they didn't find someone. They did this until they knew they had to keep walking in one direction until they found help. Their fingers and toes were dead by this point and later amputated. They did find some one and didn't die but they went through a pretty terrible experience.
Not saying it's the best choice, but if they hadn't decided to keep walking until they found help they would have froze to death.
 
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I found moving from the upper peninsula of Michigan to south of the mason dixon line makes your car much happier and agreeable to winter driving.
 
Pocket heaters either chemical or fuel sticks, road flares/road flare simulator flashlight. Flashlight with strobe/SOS using lithium batteries AA/AAA/CR123 I think all three are good to -40F.

Dry food, Gatorade, CB, propane torch if you really need to start a fire you don't want to mess with a Bic or matches, if you don't want to carry propane, carry fire starter. Blankets, those cheap microfiber blankets that are everywhere are great if you don't plan on playing with fire, wool or quality quilt blankets are good.

Layers, layers will keep you warm, layers will keep you dry so if nothing else take clothes that layer well and take a retro reflective vest to toss over that.

Emergency beacons are cheap insurance.

At the root of all of this is a properly maintained vehicle and good driving practices, part of which is letting people know where you are going and what route you are taking, that way if there is a search party, they'll have a good idea where to find you.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Assuming the two blankets = two layers of blanket, that adds about 20f to your clothing. Is that enough?
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Generally yes I dress in layers and the first aid kit includes heat sheets thermal bivys. I live in New England, staying with the vehicle when necessary creates the a micro climate, allows one to diminish the effects of wind chill. I've slept multiple nights in an unheated truck/car cabin with layers and wool blankets sub 15-20F weather. No issues. Also, good work gloves you can put an already gloved hand into, so you can work on the car insulated.
 
By far, staying with the car is the best option almost all the time, and I don't know anyone who would argue otherwise who has any sort of credibility. Even in the survivorman ep, he makes it very clear that under normal circumstances, staying with the car is the best idea, but no one is looking for him, and the position is untenable. There will always be factors that demand adaptability. there have been plenty of cases where walking out has been the good option, but those are the exception.
However the prep beforehand is also important as cars are much less insulated than people expect. Like I said. I've been in situations when it was so cold and windy, that I was wearing full winter gear in the cab of an F350 with the heater cranked. (of course the next truck I got had an exhaust leak, so I couldn't idle it)
Make sure that someone will be looking for you. Its a simple thing, but how many of us do it? Also the point about the hi-vis vest, what happens if you make it out to the hi-way, are you just another hitch-hiker? I know that I'm going to stop for the guy in the vest well before anyone else.
Sullie, I mean no disrespect, but those guys made plenty of bad decisions. I'm glad they made it out alive, but still. Where are you guys that it got that cold? Why did they have to walk out? how long before anyone would have come looking?
 
gadgetgeek said:
By far, staying with the car is the best option almost all the time, and I don't know anyone who would argue otherwise who has any sort of credibility. Even in the survivorman ep, he makes it very clear that under normal circumstances, staying with the car is the best idea, but no one is looking for him, and the position is untenable. There will always be factors that demand adaptability. there have been plenty of cases where walking out has been the good option, but those are the exception.
However the prep beforehand is also important as cars are much less insulated than people expect. Like I said. I've been in situations when it was so cold and windy, that I was wearing full winter gear in the cab of an F350 with the heater cranked. (of course the next truck I got had an exhaust leak, so I couldn't idle it)
Make sure that someone will be looking for you. Its a simple thing, but how many of us do it? Also the point about the hi-vis vest, what happens if you make it out to the hi-way, are you just another hitch-hiker? I know that I'm going to stop for the guy in the vest well before anyone else.
Sullie, I mean no disrespect, but those guys made plenty of bad decisions. I'm glad they made it out alive, but still. Where are you guys that it got that cold? Why did they have to walk out? how long before anyone would have come looking?
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No disrespect taken. They were ice fishing Lake Winnipeg(11th largest freshwater lake in the world) which is just wide open with next to no islands and when snow starts blowing visibility is next to nothing. They had a fire and stayed with the truck but like I said they lost their toes and fingers by the time they walked out. I am not sure how long it would have been before someone went looking and with the visibility it would have been a needle in a hay stack. Storms blow in very quickly and all the more reason you need to be prepared. They did make a lot of poor decisions and I am glad they made it out alive. I also hope others will learn from their mistakes and be more prepared. These were grown men who had fished the lake most of their lives. That's just the reality of being exposed to such harsh conditions.
I know in Manitoba only one cell phone provider that can track the owners location, which would have been helpful. In their situation, I would imagine a gps distress locater could be the most important thing.
 
Kept spare winter boots in the vehicle. Even if you stay with the car, your street shoes aren't going to keep you very warm.
 
Sullie, I grew up on the Sask/Man border, so I get where you are coming from. If you lost the horizon out on lake winnipeg (one of the few it would be possible to do so) and with that kind of wind-chill, yeah it would be hellish. MTS should be able to do a track if they had a GPS enabled phone, and someone knew to look, but in a blizzard out there, no one is coming. It would just be too dangerous. And it only takes one mistake out there to get really lost. Huge gamble even leaving the truck all, but in this case it worked out. Without a compass, there would be no way to strike a bearing accurate enough in those conditions to get back to shore and shelter. And in that case, that would be your only really viable option.
 
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