Winter Fire Failure (pic heavy)

J

jsdvnc

Joined
Mar 3, 2009
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213
So I decided to get outside and test my winter fire making skills. With a twist: Experimenting with smokeless powder as tinder. I gathered some kindling:
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The cartridge: 7.62x54R
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The powder:
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Using the ferro rod. You can't see it but the striker is an AH-1.
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It's going to work! hurrah!
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Maybe not...
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In retrospect, If I had gathered something like dry grass to light from the smokeless powder it may have worked. But I only had the one cartridge and the wind had changed direction so I would have had to find a new spot anyway. I guess this means I need to get out and practice more! If you guys have tips for starting fires in snow I'd love to hear them. I've tried fatwood shavings but I can't get them to take a spark.
 
Get the fire off of the ground/snow ,put powder on log and twigs from there .The ground sucks the life out of your fire.
build a platform from firewood and get the tinder off of the snow
 
Interesting idea and would probably work like you said, with dry grass. Even small twigs need to be pretty dry/hot to catch, unless it is the middle of the summer maybe. Another idea is to scrape a piece of wood to help hold the flame and maybe make some feather sticks. I made a fire over the weekend with one petroleum jelly cotton ball and a bunch of cold, damp wood and it lit up pretty quick, though I had to break it down to smaller bits.

Thanks for the pics and story. If I am not able to get outside, I can live vicariously through stories like this lol.
 
The gunpowder flashes up pretty quick but isn't hot enough for long enough to ignite sticks alone. Like you said, some more flamable tinder would be good like dry grass. Another flash ignitor is cat tail fluff, but it will burn longer than the powder. Here is what i would do:

1. Prebuild your fire teepee. Of course small on inside and working up in size as you go out. Put birch bark in the center. Some fine ripped pieces and some coiled up tubes too. The fine flat pieces ignite fast and burn fast but the coiled up pieces burn longer.
2. Make a nest of dry grasses
3. Put cat tail fluff in the center
4. Put gun powder on if you're determined to play with it but you don't need it.
5. Ignite with the your fire steel
6. Use the burning grass to ignite birch bark inside your teepee. Have extra birch bark to the side to keep adding as needed until your sticks go good.


Btw, if you keep enough tinder (grass and birch bark in this case) to keep feeding it, only your small tinder sticks need to be very dry. The kindling can be much more damp, but you will have to work to keep the fire burning to get those wet sticks hot enough to ignite.
 
texastonydobbs said:
Get the fire off of the ground/snow ,put powder on log and twigs from there .The ground sucks the life out of your fire.
build a platform from firewood and get the tinder off of the snow
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I just made a fire last weekend in northern WI. There was about 8" of snow on the ground. I pushed the snow to one side and layed my tinder on top of a piece of dry birch bark. I always try to use dry birch bark as a base to build my fires. It's flat and flameable and I can find birch all over the northern WI woods.

I've never tried to use gunpowder for fire making. I should try it sometime as I almost always have a firearm on me. Nice experiment. Maybe a different powder would have worked better? I know that some powders burn hotter and faster than others.
 
Horridus said:
The gunpowder flashes up pretty quick but isn't hot enough for long enough to ignite sticks alone. Like you said, some more flamable tinder would be good like dry grass. Another flash ignitor is cat tail fluff, but it will burn longer than the powder. Here is what i would do:

1. Prebuild your fire teepee. Of course small on inside and working up in size as you go out. Put birch bark in the center. Some fine ripped pieces and some coiled up tubes too. The fine flat pieces ignite fast and burn fast but the coiled up pieces burn longer.
2. Make a nest of dry grasses
3. Put cat tail fluff in the center
4. Put gun powder on if you're determined to play with it but you don't need it.
5. Ignite with the your fire steel
6. Use the burning grass to ignite birch bark inside your teepee. Have extra birch bark to the side to keep adding as needed until your sticks go good.
Click to expand...

I've had good luck with birch bark in the past, but it isn't always easy to find. There are no birch trees in my immediate area and they can be pretty hard to find in the local woods. The whole idea of this was what if oyu couldn't find any suitable natural tinder, but obviously you need something in between powder and twigs.

dewingrm said:
I've never tried to use gunpowder for fire making. I should try it sometime as I almost always have a firearm on me. Nice experiment. Maybe a different powder would have worked better? I know that some powders burn hotter and faster than others.
Click to expand...
That's a good point, I suspect the powder in modern hunting cartridges is different than the stuff in surplus Russian ammo from who-knows-when.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
 
Tony is definitely right there, scrape the snow away and make a platform of some type. Split twigs are great because allow oxygen to be pulled into the updraft and they also become fuel. 7.62x54 has enough powder for a first stage tinder (obvious from looking at the photo) the trick is going to be in making your secondary tinder more fire friendly. The dry grasses would have worked well for sure. I've done it and the more of it the better. You could have "feathered" the tinder into smaller slivers that would have taken the flames better also. Another thing to try would be "woody" plant stalks. The plant stalks stick up above the snow and the upper parts are nice and dry from the wind except when actual rain is falling or immediately after. Just split a decent pile of the larger lower sections of the stalks into slivers and add the the tops whole. Under these conditions you are better off having as many of you fuel stages in the lay as possible so that the upper layers can also have access to heat from the first flames and then starts a quick chain reaction with each stage igniting and the intense heat igniting the next level. Try to have everything from the slivers on up to pencil size ready when you add the powder. Using a nut shell or cupped leaf to make a little fire basket can help get your powder where you want it.
 
jsdvnc said:
I've had good luck with birch bark in the past, but it isn't always easy to find. There are no birch trees in my immediate area and they can be pretty hard to find in the local woods. The whole idea of this was what if oyu couldn't find any suitable natural tinder, but obviously you need something in between powder and twigs.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
Click to expand...

Oh I gotcha... From what I hear, fungus or some other parasitic infection has really decimated birch populations in areas. That sucks!

There is always some kind of suitable tinder as long as you are outdoors (in the Northeast US at least). :) You don't need the birch bark if you have enough dry grass to keep feeding it. You have to improvise with what you got, as you know. But milkweed, cattail and other plant fluffs will ignite slower than your gun powder giving you a better opportunity to light whatever is next in your fuel progression. :thumbup:

If you just want fire straight from your ferrorod you'll need to play with what you can find but here are some nearly year round suitable tinder ideas that work in the northeast...

Various shelf fungi are flammable and will take a spark straight from your fire steel but you will have to experiment with what you find local in your area.

Also, you can ignite various wood shavings with your fire steel. Cedar and pines work. The trick is shave from the inside of the stick to make sure it is dry. And you need a sharp knife because the thinner the slice the easier it will take a spark. You want it to be such thin slices they start to curl on their own.

Rolling dry grasses between your hands before making the nest will smash them up and make them take a spark easier.

I **THINK** you can ignite pine sap straight from your ferrorod, but I have never tried it. Worth experimenting with though.

As said, cattail, milkweed and other plants that use wind blown fine seed thingies will take a spark and ignite readily.
 
i watched a video on you tube of a guy that dunked everything he used to build a fire in water. the wood and everything. i think if you search you can find it, i don't remember the name. thanks for the pics and info!
 
texastonydobbs said:
Get the fire off of the ground/snow ,put powder on log and twigs from there .The ground sucks the life out of your fire.
build a platform from firewood and get the tinder off of the snow
Click to expand...

I burned through 10 inches of ice to get to ground once. Worst (and at 6 hours longest) firemaking experience of my life. Dig, chip, eat, anything to get to dirt. As to the tinder, yea some grasses or shavings should work, or a spare sock or whatnot.
 
Dizwolf said:
I burned through 10 inches of ice to get to ground once. Worst (and at 6 hours longest) firemaking experience of my life. Dig, chip, eat, anything to get to dirt. As to the tinder, yea some grasses or shavings should work, or a spare sock or whatnot.
Click to expand...

I like the sock bit. Sounds like a nightmare fire making situation. Rather light myself on fire.
 
Could have used your ESEE to make a load of feather sticks too. You could have also cut a small bit out of your T shirt and built the fire (as TTD suggested) off the ground atop a set of small cross laid logs. It was a good effort, next time it will be much better. Don't give up.
 
When the fire really needs to get going, I find it's a good reason to carry a pair of cotton socks. Stretch one sock between two logs/rocks (wrap the sock around and pin each end of the sock to the ground with a rock, the sock should be elevated off the ground and taut), then put your tinder/lint/dry leaves/etc. on top. You can cut the sock open lengthwise for more area.
Also, as long as the cotton is dry (carry the socks in a zip lock bag) it burns very well.
It's worked for me, at least. And in the current environment, it's easier than finding a piece of dry bark.
Once the sock/tinder is burning, put your larger material around it. Leave the rocks in the fire (you can bake on them when they get warmed up and taken out, or cool them a bit and put them under your feet at night :D)
 
Too many people get caught up in natural sources for emergency fires. You've got to be willing and thinking about burning -anything- to get that fire going.
 
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