WIP/ Newbie Grinding Error !!! 5/23

Battle Creek Knives

Battle Creek Knives

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Feb 23, 2010
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Update see post #4

I have a lot of projects in my life at the moment that's keeping me from working on my knives, being new to the game I have minimal tools at best.. Sure I could make a guide but why bother when I have this :D.. I got side tracked and decided to start grinding freehand with no center scribe and just clipped this on so I wouldn't get to carried away.. :) actually worked out better then you think as I was able to use the handle of the clip to guide me off the grinder at about 12degrees

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I'm a little nervous that I may get over anxious and do the whole blade freehand, I have a lot of experience sharpening on grinders and whatnot but I've never done a knife from scratch before...

I'm going to have to quit getting sidetracked on this thing and get the proper accessories before I destroy this one.. :) or maybe I need to devote the time needed to it once I finish (yeah right) all the other projects I have over my head right now..

how far does one take the grind before heat treat?
 
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"how far does one take the grind before heat treat?"

The answer I've heard most often is grind down to about 0.10" (about the thickness of a dime), then heat treat.

I don't.

Before I read or heard that advice, I had made 10-15 knives, always grinding to a fine edge before heat treating. I even took the finished (and still annealed) blanks to the stones to "sharpen" them before heat treating. After heat treatment, my thinking went, the steel would be too hard to easily remove material to get down to the zero edge.

I've continued to do it this way on my stock removal knives as well as those I forge. I've heard scare stories about too-fine edges fracturing or the blade warping, etc., but this just hasn't been a problem for me. It might be because most of my stock removal blades have a Scandi grind and I make sure that my forged blades have been through several de-stressing cycles before HT, but whatever the case, they all have gone into HT with a zero edge and they've all come out fine. Or maybe I've just been blessed by good fortune.

Now be aware, this is only my personal limited experience. There are makers here who subscribe to the 0.10" rule, and they have a LOT more experience than I do. Best thing advice I can give is try it either way and see what works best for you.

And good luck to you!
 
Makermook said:
"how far does one take the grind before heat treat?"

The answer I've heard most often is grind down to about 0.10" (about the thickness of a dime), then heat treat.

I don't.

Before I read or heard that advice, I had made 10-15 knives, always grinding to a fine edge before heat treating. I even took the finished (and still annealed) blanks to the stones to "sharpen" them before heat treating. After heat treatment, my thinking went, the steel would be too hard to easily remove material to get down to the zero edge.

I've continued to do it this way on my stock removal knives as well as those I forge. I've heard scare stories about too-fine edges fracturing or the blade warping, etc., but this just hasn't been a problem for me. It might be because most of my stock removal blades have a Scandi grind and I make sure that my forged blades have been through several de-stressing cycles before HT, but whatever the case, they all have gone into HT with a zero edge and they've all come out fine. Or maybe I've just been blessed by good fortune.

Now be aware, this is only my personal limited experience. There are makers here who subscribe to the 0.10" rule, and they have a LOT more experience than I do. Best thing advice I can give is try it either way and see what works best for you.

And good luck to you!
Click to expand...

Something you might want to consider; if you are taking the edges down to zero before the blades are hardened the blades, especially at the edge are losing carbon along the edge when the steel is heated to temp before quenching. If the steel you are using requires a soak time the condition worsens as it is soaked.
If no material is being removed from the edge after the blades are hardened the resulting edge may not come up to its full potential.

Regards, Fred
 
Instead of starting another thread, I think I will continue to add to this one..

guys I really messed up bigtime !!!!... I had some time today so I thought I'd put the finishing grind on my blade, all was well with 80 grit and I finished the edge.. but in lieu of hand sanding a bunch I had the ingenious idea to run 150 over the blade..............

I was just wanting to remove some of the scratches on the flat of the blade but as I got toward the tip I must have moved a little as it has rounded my 'to be' scandi where the bevel meets the flat..

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hard to see in the pics.. but one side is worse then the other.. with the obvious scenario of not being able to add more steel, what can I do to fix this??

In my earlier posts of grinding options a lot of you recommended a flat grind.. can I do that now?? can I increase the bevel on the scandi??

Its 1/8 1084.. Thanks for all your help........
 
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The only difference between a scandi grind and a flat grind is the angle of approach and there is never a secondary angle along the edge of a scadinavian ground blade. With a flat ground blade where the grind line is closer to the spine of the blade a secondary angle at the edge is acceptable, though not necessary. A scandi is sharpened just as it was ground; by laying it flat on the bevel. A flat grind is sharpened using [rule of thumb] an angle of 10 to 12 degrees relative to the sharpening medium.

And yes you can go ahead with a flat grind. What you have accomplished so far is to develop the cutting edge; now flatten the angle of approach, around 3 1/2 degrees for a blade that size and grind away.

Keep us posted, Fred
 
Danbo said:
Doesn't look ruined to me. Do a full flat grind on the blade!
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Maybe we should start a ruined thread to show what ruined really is. There is very little that cannot be rescued with a little more time at the grinder; as long as there is still metal left something can be made from it.
 
I'm confused as to what the proper accessories are for grinding a knife. 　Of every knife I've ever ground, I've used a plunge guide for maybe three of them. They have all been freehand.
 
Hey Fred - my first free knifemaking lesson was a single sentence - "Knifemakers don't make mistakes, we just make smaller knives."
 
AcridSaint said:
Hey Fred - my first free knifemaking lesson was a single sentence - "Knifemakers don't make mistakes, we just make smaller knives."
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I maintain that the scratches, imperfections, mistakes, etc are really "character marks".

I had to make a smaller knife when I got over-zealous during heat treating and melted the tip of a blade. That was a little too much character, even for me.

- Paul Meske
 
ok I've fixed it by raising the relief cut.. I just can't bring myself to ffg at the moment as I set out for a scandi (once I finally made up my mind). I have another blank in the same shape I'll go with a flat on that one..

I've learned a lot already with trial and error, for example after I thought I was done grinding I started block sanding and WOW !! there was a groove in the blade that was completely unnoticed until I blocked it out.. I've now got that fixed also, however my biggest question is this.. when I sharpen a knife I always draw the handle upward when I get closer to the tip, by default I'm doing that while grinding and my tip doesn't have the same grind, its more shallow and the cutting edge itself is left thicker..

when grinding should I just pull it straight across the belt?? Is 220 sufficient for a final hand sanding?? should I go higher or lower??

I'll get some good shots tomorrow and post them, hopefully I'll get to the store for some drill bits and have it ready for HT tomorrow...
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Something you might want to consider; if you are taking the edges down to zero before the blades are hardened the blades, especially at the edge are losing carbon along the edge when the steel is heated to temp before quenching. If the steel you are using requires a soak time the condition worsens as it is soaked.
If no material is being removed from the edge after the blades are hardened the resulting edge may not come up to its full potential.

Regards, Fred
Click to expand...

Maybe I misspoke. I grind to a zero edge, then heat treat, THEN put the final edge on the blade. For a Scandi grind, I go back to the stones and start at coarse, working up through 8,000 grit for a mirror finish on the bevel. For the forged, non-Scandi blades, I go to the stones as well, removing a small amount of steel at the cutting edge as I sharpen and establish the secondary bevel. This seems to remove just enough of the potentially de-carbed metal to expose good steel right there at the cutting edge.
 
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