Wish list: RAT-4 "Sportsman?"

C

catboat

Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
37
I like the RAT-3, RC-3,RC-4, RAT-5, and TAK-1 well enough. Quality is there, but they don't catch me on design. They certainly LOOK like Military/Law enforcement style knives. I wish there would be a less-tactical-looking designed knife available from RAT. I was hoping the RC-4 would be a step in the right direction-but it's not quite close enough for me.

I don't need (or want) a knife that is thicker than 0.125" (1/8"). I use a knife to slice and cut. I don't chop. I haven't had to "baton" anything. I wish RAT would make better use of the existing handle length dimensions. There is about 1/2 inch of "lost" /non-utilized knife length between the hilt and the cutting edge (ricasso?). I wish they would increase the handle length at that point, and retain an overall knife length of about 8.5-8.75" (definitely not any longer than 9.0"). In my view, a blade length of 4.0"-4.5"(drop point), coupled with a HILT to butt length of 4.5" (with a less prominent hilt, it sticks out far enough, but the hilt is too thick/wide from tip to butt), with a blade thickness of 0.125", flat grind, and blade width of about 1.25" would be just about perfect. Use 1095 steel to about RH 58, or A2 steel at RH 58+ would be aces. I'd buy that knife.

No window breaker on the butt end-it's just something that will ding up my rifle stock. Keep the handle lines straight, no curves, with a rounded butt. Micarta is great (slab thickness of ~ 3/16" each side for a thin handle), with full tang. Put the hole for a lanyard about 1/4-3/8" from the but end ("surrounded by micarta, not on exposed steel, which can ding a gun stock when knife is sheathed on hip, and rifle slung over shoulder). You don't have to coat the steel with that black stuff-I'll keep it well-oiled myself.

Perhaps this is not the RAT "typical" marketing product line. Just want to give some feedback to RAT that perhaps they could pick up some extra sales from us "just plain Jane" hunters/woods loafers/sportsman, and not tactical/military/LE. In many ways, it would resemble the Cold Steel Master Hunter, but have a thinner blade (1/8" thick, not 3/16"), and have a full tang. Supply it with a brown colored kydex sheath (at least will have the color of leather, to get away from the "tactical black" market, and more towards the "hunter/sportsman/hiker/woodsloafer" knife).

As for micarta color, I'd prefer ivory, to look like bone/ivory, (or green, brown: Black, grey. orange ok) but handle color is a low importance issue to me.

Can I put that on my RAT "wish list?" A RAT-4 "Sportsman?" "RAT-sport 9040?" (9 inch overall, 4 inch blade). RCS-4? ( RCS for "Sport" version?), RCH-4 ("Hunter"?)

Crossing my fingers.
 
That sounds like a pretty handy knife you described right there. I like the knives that RAT makes now but something like you described would be much more likely to get used by me than the more tactical offerings.
 
Here's my idea of an RC-4 "Sportsman":
Standard RC-4 shape, MAYBE another 1/4" drop at the point.
Keep the thickness, since it's a flat grind, it adds strength without sacrificing slicing ability.
Do a full flat grind, not a secondary bevel.
No blade coating
Keep the choil (good for choking up for finer work).
Choice of Maple Burl, Green canvas micarta (IMO "grippier" than linen micarta), or "Ivory" micarta scales.
Choice of canvas/cordura sheath or leather sheath, with pouch big enough for a stone or diafold sharpener. Since the basic knife woul dbe the saem, or have a slight increase in drop, guys could order the standard kydex sheath.

Really what it boils down to is a relatively inexpensive (if you don't change the drop of the point) set of scale and sheath options, plus saving money by not coating the blade.
 
:thumbdn: 1095 un-coated will look like crap after being used a few times. IMO... If the fiction blade was built and sold uncoated I don't believe it would be a very good seller,the end user(you) would be mad to receive a new blade that had rust spot on it from sitting on a shelf. :rolleyes: buy a RC 4 & a belt sander & paint stripper and do it yourself ;oops there went your warranty...alot of people are modding there own blade per there desires.:D
 
Well, it would develope, or you coul dspeed along the development of a patina.
There's plenty of uncoated, non-stainless blades out there, and that's generally what happens to them, they get a patina. That's what's going on with my RAT-7, the coating is wearing off from use and a patina is replacing it. The only time this is really a problem is when you get someone buying it that doesn't know how carbon steel reacts, or how to properly care for it.

For my personal tastes, I don't mind the coating in the least. As for my other changes, I can easily replace the linene micarta with either the green canvas if/when RAT Cutlery starts offering alternate scales, or with wood scales. I'vve pretty much already resigned myself to having to ship the knife off to have a custom sheath made the way I want it, and the drop of the point isn't a big deal.

They might, but I really don't see RAT bothering to offer a myriad of small optimizations to meet individual's preferences beyond bolt-on (literally) scales, and possibly sheathing options.
 
Let RAt Cutlery get off and Rolling before you expect option...the handle option is a great idea but the sheath on the RC3 is excellent,the flexibility and versatility ... I think the sheath now vs. Ontario RATs are a step in the right direction as an upgrade and usability,the only thing I would like to see is a pocket or a firesteel loop,on my RC3 I have a scout lmf firesteel on the back side trap under the velcro belt loop and the molle loops, fits OK and does not bother me but not as handy as if it was in the front of the sheath.
 
Don't take my posts as complaining, RAT makes great knives (the Ontarios are nice too), and fact is NO commercial sheath is exactly how I want it. But the fact is, it'll be rare that a standard commercial product will be exactly what anyone wants. Not a big deal.

Plus, I've pretty much amassed what I think is everything I need to survive/thrive/camp in my environments, and now it's time to spend the $$ to make it into EXACTLY the gear I want -- which is at least half the fun.
 
I dont take it as complaining but just point out other facts to help out newbies to RAT.. I have alot of items as you and making blades have your own personal touches is fun as well,I do agree...
 
One thing I would like to see is RAT knives made of A2 at Rc59 with a full flat grind all the way to the edge - no secondary bevel. A2 doesn't rust as easily as 1095 does plus it combines high toughness, with the ability to obtain and keep a razor sharp edge.
 
+1 with the A2 steel blade on the wish list "RAT RC4 Sportsman." I'd take that over 1095, if it was ever to come through.

Think of the market that RAT could expand into. They have an excellent product, and have a strong following in the tactical market. They have not tapped into the "gentleman sportsman knife" market.

Let's go RAT. Let's thin out that RC-4 blade to 1/8", and narrow it up at tad, Move the hilt up (and lessen it) and get that A2 steel rolling in. You'd crush the Cold Steel Master Hunter market.
 
catboat said:
+1 with the A2 steel blade on the wish list "RAT RC4 Sportsman." I'd take that over 1095, if it was ever to come through.

Think of the market that RAT could expand into. They have an excellent product, and have a strong following in the tactical market. They have not tapped into the "gentleman sportsman knife" market.

Let's go RAT. Let's thin out that RC-4 blade to 1/8", and narrow it up at tad, Move the hilt up (and lessen it) and get that A2 steel rolling in. You'd crush the Cold Steel Master Hunter market.
Click to expand...

You are right about the Cold Stell Master Hunter market.

Could be a very cool alternative. I really like carbon steel and most people do for an outdoors knife. The swedish Sandvick stainless steel responds like carbon steel. Maybe to save costs use something like AUS-8. A tan handle micarta. An 1/8" blade will definately appeal to many that wouldn't normally look at RAT for their next purchase. But I am not a gentleman so this wouldn't apply to me.:D
 
No Scanvic 12c. No Aus 8A. First choice is A2 tool steel. I 'd like that 1.0% carbon range. Now, if you want a stainless, I'd take VG-10.

A2, A2, A2 is what RAT should look at. (or VG10, VG10 VG10), or, 1095 as last choice.

C'mon RAT. Product development starts today. I don't need to be told to give the RC-4 a chance. I already gave my feedback. I'm not getting one. Too thick.

It is a fine knife for those who want a longer bladed RC-3. Let's face it, in a short time span, RAT went from the RAT 5/TAK to the RAT-3, then to the RC 4. Why? The buyers weren't satisfied with the knife, and being a responsive company with a quality product, they implemented product development. Various knife models, alterations, ensued.

What I'm reporting is that product development is a never-ending process. What is RAT going to do next? They keep on making a model with a one inch longer or shorter blade (3-4-5-6-7') They covered that 3/16" thick tactical "batoning" market. For sales to improve, or "grow organically" as the termed is used, they must find another market.

My suggestions are to develope a quality knife that is not tactical looking, that has a very useable blade/handle length. Cold Steel's Master Hunter is a classic knife. There are many people who don't like the company or owner. Why not take advantage of that issue, and market a better product, with better steel, with a classic design? It (proposed knife) would be better (more rugged) in my view due to a full hilt blade. It would then be not EQUAL to the Master Hunter, but BETTER THAN the Master Hunter at this price point. This feature would provide a strong "feature/benefit" advantage to the company manufacturing this proposed knife. Also, need I have to add that it should be stamped "made in the USA." It would not only take away from the Cold Steel Master Hunter market, but also to expand sales to the loyal and existing RAT buyers (who own several RAT products already).

You have to be realistic. Other company's read this site. If they determine this is a good idea, they will implement it. There is the power of precidence in marketing and sales (first is best). Queen Cultery could take their premium hunter drop point design, and change the steel. They use D2. Like it or not, D2 is hard to sharpen for the normal person in the field. Yes, I know it's very durable (I have one). They are a well-designed knife, but I wish that knife had a slightly longer blade (by 1/2") and a tade wider (1/4 -3/8"), but more importantly, I wished they used either 1095 or A2 for a carbon steel blade. I'd love that knife in VG10 too, for stainless. It could be a thinner blade. It's 1/8" thick but that could be 3/32" and be both rugged and controllable.

Someone will make a knife like this. The question is who will be first.
 
catboat

Are you a marketer? I have read both your posts here thus far and judging from the way you analyze and articulate I was given this impression. Is that right?
Aside from this, I totally agree with you on this issue, period. I own knives made of 420HC, AUS-8A, Sandvik 12C27, ATS-34, 154CM, hammer forged 440C, VG10, S30V, D2, A2, 5160, 1095, Carbon V (which essentially is 1095), W1, 1080, 1084, O1, 52100, M2 HSS, SR-77, SR-101, INFI plus some handmade knives from Finland all in their high carbon tool steel. As one can understand, although I can't claim that I own knives from every steel that it's out there, I own enough to be able to judge among them. Based on this, plus the factor of differentiation, I suggested A2.
I understand that RAT feel comfortable with 1095 because they have worked with it and they know how to deal with it. A2 on the other hand is "terra incognita" (unknown earth) for them. They may be thinking about the learning curve and that may keep them away from trying with it. It is understandable, as much as it is understandable that all other companies are probably thinking the same way. The company which will take the first step towards using A2 will have the upper hand.
A2 can provide the level of sharpness of 1095 but it is more durable and doesn’t tarnish as easily. I believe this is an underrated steel.
 
My background is in the machine tool business. Long before I got into knife making I was building slitting dies and punch die sets using A2, D2 and a myriad of other steels. A2 is a great steel, as is D2. Some day we will probably go down that road with RAT Cutlery. We may even use 154CM or other steel (in fact, that project is already in the works but hasn't been announced). VG10 is a great steel also. Problem is there is an import restriction on the steel last I checked. If we plan on doing a VG10 blade then the blade, itself, has to be made overseas. RAT Cutlery is NOT going overseas with our blades, so that leaves out one of my favorite steels: VG10.

We will never be able to please everyone, no matter what we do. We realize that and are not setting our company up that way. We have a lot of new things in the works, but all new companies and new projects take time to come to fruition. There are a LOT of good manufacturers and makers out there that cover just about any knife anyone could dream up. We're not trying to compete with these companies, we're just doing our own thing and moving forward at a steady pace. We do appreciate all the feedback though since that is a major part of helping us to grow in the right direction.

Jeff
 
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