Wobble

[Murdamook]

How much side to side play is acceptable for you all in a slippy? I bought an early 2000s 33OT and the fit and finish are incredible. The back springs are perfectly flush, delrin is uniform, the bolster transitions are smooth. The only thing I’ve noted is that the blade have some side to side play. In the Schrade price range is this just to be expected?

 

[kamagong]

Define wobble. Most slipjoints have some measure of play if I try to find it hard enough.

 

[Pàdruig]

I have found blade play (particularly side-to-side movement) to be a rather subjective thing.

I can't speak to the specific knife you mention but I do believe that the older Schrades used a different pivot system (swinden key) for a period of time - whether that factors into any sort blade play or not, I am not certain. I have a '90's era Schrade 340T that was my first pocket knife as a lad - I just checked it a bit ago and there is no play, even though it had been used really hard. One might say that the sheepfoot blade has a small amount of movement but it is not enough to deter any concerns about using it - in my opinion, of course.

I have and have had knives that would be considered to have blade wobble - even some GECs. Even my very favorite, a #93 Lambsfoot has an almost imperceptible amount of play but only if I grab the very tip of the blade and lightly flex it side to side (something I am not in the habit of doing). For some, that is enough to deter them from the knife - for me, I find it normal and acceptable as it doesn't impact the function of the knife whatsoever.

I have a Cripple Creek Barlow that has noticeable blade play but it has a very firm snap and it doesn't move around when cutting with it. Again, more than acceptable to me.

In an age where tight tolerances are the norm, little idiosycrasies like blade play can be a rather contentious element in a knife. In my opinion, there is hardly any excuse to see blade play in modern folders but, on the other hand, with traditionally made slip joints, I find it to be a different animal and there is a lot more grace to be given.

 

[afishhunter]

No. Noticeable side to side wobble isn't to be expected at the Old Timer, Rough Ryder, or even at the Imperial price points, any more than blade wobble should be expected at the GEC and one-off made to order custom knife price points.

How much side play do I find acceptable?
If I can notice it, it is too much.
The knife in question is then delegated to the "never carry or use" group (which also includes the too stiff/hard of pull that I can't fix, and "I don't like the pattern or size" knives, and those with a worn out or broken backspring.
At present, I might have two or three left in that group.
If I don't like the size or pattern, I tend to give those knives away. Those with wiggly-wobblies, an excessive pull, and those with a broken or worn out backspring, stay, but are never carried or used.

 

[Murdamook]

Define wobble. Most slipjoints have some measure of play if I try to find it hard enough.

I can see the blade moving against the back spring. It’s still a small amount but I’m not muscling it at all. I’ve been told I muscle play too much by former buyers. I sold them knives with what I advertised as blade play and they said they had to put significant force into it to notice anything. This is not one of those examples.

 

[kamagong]

If that’s the case, then it’s too much. Nothing to do about it though, the company that made that knife went defunct more than a decade go. You can accept that knife for what it is, or sell it and try to find a better specimen.

 

[dsutton24]

I've been collecting for more than forty years. I never knew anyone who worried about blade wobble or centering until I started hanging out here. In my opinion expectations sometimes are unrealistic. In a new knife a little blade wobble is normal. Things have to move for the blade to open. A new knife that has a lot of wobble is defective. An old knife will have more wobble if it's been used at all. Knives are tools, and for the most part are built with that in mind.

Speaking for myself, I have very different ideas of what to expect from a twenty dollar knife and a hundred dollar knife. Saying that a twenty dollar knife has to be perfect in every regard is to admit that we're paying way too much for a GEC. Who, by the way, have their own problems.

What you choose to tolerate for the money you spend is up to you.

 

[Murdamook]

If that’s the case, then it’s too much. Nothing to do about it though, the company that made that knife went defunct more than a decade go. You can accept that knife for what it is, or sell it and try to find a better specimen.

I really like the pattern. I think I’m willing to deal. I was just curious if it was common with vintage Schrades. Honestly, maybe I’m too picky or just catch lemons, but a lot of my traditionals have side to side play and that includes my GECs. Both of my single blade 15s from the most recent batches have side to side play.

 

[Murdamook]

I've been collecting for more than forty years. I never knew anyone who worried about blade wobble or centering until I started hanging out here. In my opinion expectations sometimes are unrealistic. In a new knife a little blade wobble is normal. Things have to move for the blade to open. A new knife that has a lot of wobble is defective. An old knife will have more wobble if it's been used at all. Knives are tools, and for the most part are built with that in mind.

Speaking for myself, I have very different ideas of what to expect from a twenty dollar knife and a hundred dollar knife. Saying that a twenty dollar knife has to be perfect in every regard is to admit that we're paying way too much for a GEC. Who, by the way, have their own problems.

What you choose to tolerate for the money you spend is up to you.

Thank you. This is a good perspective. It helps assuage the frustration I may have felt.

 

[Wild Willie]

I just checked both Schrade stockman's in the house, one is a 34ot that I recently acquired, and the other is a 634uh that was mine until passed on to my son. The 34 has just the slightest bit of wiggle, and the 634 has a bit more, but that knife was carried and used hard on the farm growing up. Neither has enough for me to worry about using or carrying them at all. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[kamagong]

This issue comes up for discussion from time to time. Here are a knifemaker's thoughts on the subject.

Blade play...one of my favorite subjects

Seriously though, I don't think a knife can be made "too good". They should be made as tight as possible while maintaining good walk n talk. But, if the blade doesn't have some elbow room, the knife isn't going to work. It's maddening, I tell ya.

The tolerances are very close between great snap and sleepy blades....wobbly blades and no movement. I tiny bit of side to side play doesn't bother me. I would rather have that than have a blade that is sluggish.

...when folks talk about blade play, I think they need to quantify it in some way because I have seen varying degrees of it in hand made and production knives and I have no way to relate that to the subject of blade play as it is discussed in this or the other threads that exist on the subject. How much side to side blade play is acceptable? Some say "none" and some say "a little bit". How much is "none" and how much is "a little bit"? Oh, and...I almost forgot "wobble". How much is "wobble"?

I maybe think about pocket knives and how they work a bit differently than your basic knife lover since I have built a few. I think of blade play in terms of tenths of thousandths of an inch. You have to have that kind of blade play to make a knife work. That kind of "blade play" can't be seen or felt in side to side movement, but, can only be noticed in the way that the knife works or how some describe as "snappy". What I am saying is "blade play" is needed for a pocket knife to open and close snappy.

From my point of view, knowing every pocket knife that I put together is going to be slightly different, I don't know 100% how the knife will work until that last pin is peined or spun. That's really the point in which I know for sure how much play will be in the blade. At that juncture, I have to decide if the play is acceptable enough in my mind to pass on to a buyer or do I give it away.

I'm of the opinion that a knife isn't a total loss if you can feel a little play. As far as any knife that I would make, I strive for no detectable(play you can't feel in side to side movement) blade play. But, if I put together a knife and can FEEL some slight movement but the knife operates smoothly with good snap, I would rather have some detectable blade play and have a good working knife than have a sluggishly operating blade.

Whether hand made or production, the buyer needs to make the final decision on just how much is acceptable to them.

We could try to quantify acceptable play on a production knife as this; the blade tip can be pushed one way or the other 1/4 of the available space in either direction and it STAYS there. How much do you really like the knife? If you really like it, you might accept a wee bit more..maybe up to 1/3 play. I'd say anything over that would be too much in any knife and I would try to get it fixed or replaced.

 

[Murdamook]

This issue comes up for discussion from time to time. Here are a knifemaker's thoughts on the subject.

Thank you for this. I’m putting to much stock in it, I think.

 

[Will Power]

It's all about tolerances, literal and metaphysical

If you have a knife you like very much and you detect no play you appreciate it greatly.

If you have a knife that you like very much and it has some, it will always irk you (very much so if it's costly) If you can't fix it then you'll never really relate to the knife. It's not overthinking as such it's knowing what you'll tolerate

Springs that are not flush on open or closed are another matter....

 

[abcdef]

It's all about tolerances, literal and metaphysical

So true. Reading BF can tend to make one anal about the topic, but I feel it is overblown.

 

[JohnDF]

Here are a knifemaker's thoughts on the subject.

That was good to read.
I've made that mistake before. A knife had a very slight wobble, so I peened the pivot. This turned it into a knife with a sleepy action. I would have preferred the wobble. It seems peening the rivet on a single blade is an easy affair, but a two blade is far more difficult to get correct.

 

[Hjalmar69]

I recently received a 34OT that has a very slight wobble if I look for it, if you see what I mean. It took me ten days or so before I noticed by the way of actually looking for it. Using it doesn't make the "problem appear. My son is a car mechanic and shoots a lot with his newly required rifles and this makes him say "it is to be expected to find som flaws every now and then", in his experience with cars and guns. I myself try to get over getting worked up over things like that since I can actually find myself being silly.
In the end I love my new knife. Perfect snap, better than my newer production Schrades, Springs stays flush with the blades open, something not always the case with my older knives. Smoothly fit and finished apart from a small wobble if I look for it by moving the tip sideways with a bit more force than easy pressure. Feels sturdy when cutting and whittling. Perfect when it comes to functionality and everyday beauty albeit not when it comes to perfection. Apparently it has its minor flaw.
Just reassuring myself.
Regards Erik

Regards

 

[ed_is_dead]

From my own perspective blade play is my big bug bear. I'm prepared to fix it or end up with a sluggish blade on snapping (usually closed).
Of all the knives I've flushed, tightened and re peened (maybe 20) I've had a decent success rate with only three not retaining all snaps.
Feeling play when swapping bevels sharpening or stropping wrecks my head, never mind even using it to cut with. YMMV.

 

[rishma]

My favorite old knife was old when in got it 30 years ago. 3 or 4 years ago I noticed I could wiggle the main blade. I’m sure it’s always been like that but I had never checked. This imperfect companion snaps closed, open, and half with authority. It hasn’t affected the usability or my enjoyment of it. Funny thing is I do judge other knives by their wobble or lack of...

 

[black mamba]

To me, this thing of grabbing the tip and moving the blade side to side to try to make it wobble is ridiculous. That's not the way anyone uses a knife. I've never done it, and won't do it. If the knife doesn't have any noticeable movement when in use, then it's fine.

 

[SteveC]

My favorite old knife was old when in got it 30 years ago. 3 or 4 years ago I noticed I could wiggle the main blade. I’m sure it’s always been like that but I had never checked. This imperfect companion snaps closed, open, and half with authority. It hasn’t affected the usability or my enjoyment of it. Funny thing is I do judge other knives by their wobble or lack of...

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