Woods Guns

G

Gautier

Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
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Well, I managed to get out to the range today and do some plinking with my Savage MKII .22 rifle. Was a pretty fair day, low wind for the most part with a few gusts up to 15 or 20mph(that's calm for the desert), and was able to hit minute of beer can at about 100-115 yards. Zeroed in at 25(75) hitting about 2 inches high, and could regularly take out 12 gauge shells from 25 yards, a nickel, a bic lighter, and beer/soda cans at 75-100ish.

Now that ya have some idea of the average of the rifle. I pose a question. Are your woods guns tackdrivers and bullseye munching machines, or just plain "squirrel killers" and "minute of Skoal can" rifles?

The thing is even though I know I can get game with this rifle, I'm a bit disappointed that my groups aren't regularly sub 1" MOA at 100 yards or so. Granted I'll attribute a lot of today's shortcomings to wind, and some user-error, and a few ammo issues. I somehow remember shooting much tighter in my earlier years though. Am I asking too much of the .22 to reach out to 100 yards with consistency(I did it alot in my youth) or do the rest of you push the limits with your rimfires with satisfactory results?


Gautier
 
I think if your woods gun is just that than game getting is the utmost priority....Personally, I don't even think I could see a squirrel at 100 yards much less hit one...but that's just me...also I'm sure you know this, but the best way to drive tacks is by practicing....
 
A 22 does not have much left at 100 yards and a very light wind coulh have a pretty big effect once the velocicy falls off. Today's 22 ammo does not perform to well accross a good chronograph. 50 yards is starting to push the range issue.
 
A .22 is highly effective and accurate at 100+ yards! To me, once a rifle's favorite ammo is found, it's ALL about the shooter and PRACTICE!

I used to regularly take gophers at 110-125 yards with 36gr and 40gr HP's on the windswept prairie of ND when I was younger using a Marlin bolt action and a Weaver 4x. So shooting a squirrel out to 100 yards would be identical.

For fun, we'd shoot the metal gongs at the rifle range with the .22's out to 250 YARDS! Sure it'd take a few ranging shots on the long ones, but I usually knew right where to hold out to the 150 yarders on the first shot.

As to chronographing them, I do it all the time. As with any caliber or arrow, it's all about the lighting conditions. Too bright or too dark and you'll have errors. I like sunny days with a roof overhead to keep it from bearing directly down on the screens.

I suggest you take the .22 and go to the local range and set up some targets at 100 yards and start practicing. Keep pushing yourself to get better groups under all conditions and it will come.

Also, the best 'item' I can suggest you get for better accuracy is more POWER! That is, more power in your scope. I upgraded to a 6-24x40mm scope on my Marlin bolt action and cranked up the power for the really long shots. You can't hit what you can't see! ;)
 
My chronograph is not sensitive to light conditions. Also I have chronographed every brand on every kind of day you can imagine. I have shot thousands of bricks of 22 shells through about 25 different rifles and pistols. Even the hottest 22 LR load will drop 5 inches at 100 yards when zeroed at 50. As a kid I shot deer and antelope and all small game with the 22 but wind drift when you you start with low velocity loads is considerable. You are also talking very little energy remaining at 100 yards. I started shooting the 22 almost daily in 1950 and have never stopped.
 
My favorite .22 is a CZ-452 'Super Exclusive' - with a 28.8" barrel and iron sights calibrated out to 300 meters - as optimistic as that may seem. Great trigger - beautiful Turkish walnut (One of mine is a fluke - I have another one with an orange shellaced beechwood stock.). It is way too big for a woods rifle. My similar CZ-452 Trainer/Special, with it's sights removed and a Swift #676 4-12x40A/O scope, might be a bit better - it's barrel is only 25.4"! They do make a 'Scout' or Youth model with a short barrel - a far better woods/squirrel gun. They have tight match chambers - some hot CCI ammo won't chamber. They love Federal 'Game-Shok'.

Oddly, when someone mentions 'woods gun', I immediately think of 'protection'. Helluva note, it isn't the wood's 4-legged beasties I fear the most - there are plenty of 2-legged beasties out there. My vision of a proper 'woods gun' is one of my S&W 625 Mountain Guns in .45 Colt, as shown below. My current holster is just a pancake OWB style, and could keep the revolver under a long shirt or vest. It should suffice for anything that might have me on it's diet here in the SE - and even some hacked off wild boars. I carry 255gr LSWC & 250gr Gold Dot JHPs, which make 820-840 fps from the 4" revolver. My 'woods knife' is highly variable, from a pocket knife (and pocket revolver) in more civilized 'parks' to the Kalinga Pro shown in more desolate areas - as the local laws permit.

IMG_0275_edited.jpg


Stainz
 
Plainsman said:
A .22 is highly effective and accurate at 100+ yards! To me, once a rifle's favorite ammo is found, it's ALL about the shooter and PRACTICE!
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Have to disagree. A garden variety 22 and ammo is out of gas at 100yrds. Besides what are you hunting at 100 yrds with a 22? Your use is atypical for a barn 22 to put meat on the table.

It makes no sense.

Want to play with targets, elevation and windage go for it but its not a killer round at this distance unless its juiced.

Sure you can find someone who can kill a gopher with a sling and rock at 100 yrds but it dont make it smart or practical in a survival situation.

Skam
 
skammer said:
Have to disagree. A garden variety 22 and ammo is out of gas at 100yrds. Besides what are you hunting at 100 yrds with a 22? Your use is atypical for a barn 22 to put meat on the table.

It makes no sense.

Want to play with targets, elevation and windage go for it but its not a killer round at this distance unless its juiced.

Sure you can find someone who can kill a gopher with a sling and rock at 100 yrds but it dont make it smart or practical in a survival situation.

Skam
Click to expand...

Ditto on that one. Much better .22 calibers to choose from at that range that can actually be effective. I use a .223, .22 Hornet, or even .17 Remington for vermin work at 100 yards here on the cattle ranch.
 
"Am I asking too much of the .22 to reach out to 100 yards with consistency(I did it alot in my youth) or do the rest of you push the limits with your rimfires with satisfactory results?"

This is the question I was addressing...I was responding to the question being asked!! Killing gophers and squirrels is the same thing and it is easily done at 110+ yards with a .22LR with the proper knowledge, skill and practice. How much energy do you think it takes to kill a gopher or squirrel cleanly? I've shot literally hundreds in a weekend at a time at the distances I'm talking about. It is like 'mini-P-dog' hunting. Find a colony, set up and start zeroing in! One shot kills were the norm at the long distances as HP's tend to blow big holes in animals this size. BTW, my brands of choice are Federal Bulk Pack and American Eagle, no juiced up rounds necessary, just the ones that shoot best out of each .22.
 
Plainsman said:
"Am I asking too much of the .22 to reach out to 100 yards with consistency(I did it alot in my youth) or do the rest of you push the limits with your rimfires with satisfactory results?"

This is the question I was addressing...I was responding to the question being asked!! Killing gophers and squirrels is the same thing and it is easily done at 110+ yards with a .22LR with the proper knowledge, skill and practice. .
Click to expand...


I kill squirrels and gophers a lot closer than 100 yrds with a 22.

My point is, if I am shooting 100 yrds and beyond for meat it isnt with a 22 and its going to be a lot bigger game.

Dang I use pellet guns for squirrels at 50 feet.

Skam
 
Well, got out there again today. Different brand of ammo, mixed results. A 2x2x1" piece of basswood scrap with a penny silouhette was gone inside 3-5 shots at 125-130 yards. Wasn't able to duplicate that though as the range time dwindled down. Grouping was about 1.5-2" at 100 yards. About the same at 75. Today wasn't nearly as calm as yesterday though as far as wind.

I will admit I'm definitely in need of new optics, considering that shot on the basswood was tough to see. Planning on doing some shopping for glass tomorrow after work. As for the responses that it's not practical, well, I concede. It's not practical to do a lot of things though that some of us do, and in a survival situation, something "impractical" just might save your life. I like to know the limits of what I can do with what I carry and if I can consistently push something to it's limits with satisfactory results, that's just one more trick in the bag I say.

I guess these eyes just ain't what they used to be is all, or I should practice more often. :D


Gautier
 
My SKS's are not sniper rifles, but I have about a 3" grouping at 75 yards with them open sites. My Ruger 10/22 IS pretty much a sniper rifle, just without the bullet size and the grouping on it is tight enough at 75 yards that every bullet hole in the target is touching another bullet hole. The new woods gun, the Marlin model 60 that my friend gave to me day before yesterday, I have not yet had a chance to zero in, but when I do, it should be a very tight grouping as well. Not near as good as the Ruger, but then I won't have as much work invested in it. Point being, my "woods rifles" have to be PD accurate or I don't like them, because if they aren't accurate, it's not my fault and it's not the right gun for me.
 
My woods guns are a NEF 12 gauge & a S&W model 17 .22lr.

With the NEF's IC choke I can put a decent pattern out to 40 yards. Future plans for it are to shorten the barrel to 21", add screw in chokes, add a weaver rail & sights, and add a slip-on buttpad. A lot of effort for a inexpensive shotgun, but it will be my ideal squirrel & turkey gun.

With my S&W model 17 I can hit a soda can at 25 yards fairly easy, any closer & the can stands no chance. This revolver is more accurate than I ever hope to be.
 
Just got a Marlin bolt .22, but I havn't had a chance to get it to the range yet. Still waiting on the scope and the time to go, but I'm thinking from everything that I've read about them, that it'll be a good shooter and once I find the right food for it, only time will tell how tight the groups will get. Till then, the 12ga and a recurve are my go to's for game getting.
 
I have always considered the .22 LR a solid 60 yard gun (with HV HP's). I've killed a few groundhogs at 70 yards and a few grey squirrels at 75 yards. Not easy with any hint of wind, it really moves the bullet around. My current go to .22 LR is an Ultra Light Arms Model 20 left hand bolt action. With no wind, I can usually put 5 inside an inch at 100 yards off a bench with a good front rest (Hart) and rear bag. It currently wears a 4-12X AO Leupold, the 3-9X EFR was an experiment.

ULA20.jpg


C.S. Landis writings from the 30's and 40's speak of some very long kills on greys (up to 140 yards), but Landis was a world class marksman. They often shot rimfires at 200 yards at the Sea Girt, NJ range. His book, "Hunting with the Twenty-Two" should be on every squirrel hunter's bookshelf.
 
Gautier said:
Am I asking too much of the .22 to reach out to 100 yards with consistency(I did it alot in my youth) or do the rest of you push the limits with your rimfires with satisfactory results?
Click to expand...

At 100 yards, a .22LR is the wrong tool for the job, plain and simple.

I LOVE .22s and have a bunch of them, rifles and pistols, but for longer ranges than 50-60 yards, there are many better choices.

Good shooting,
desmobob
 
I'm not much of a rifle guy, though I certainly have a few. When out knocking about I usually prefer a handgun.

When I used to do a lot of hunting, mainly for cottontails, I liked carrying a short barreled shotgun and a .22 handgun, usually a Ruger Mark I in a holster. When the bunny would run, I'd use the shotgun. If it sat, I'd use the pistol. Seemed a great combo.

I don't hunt anymore, but I still like to have a firearm with me when out and about. My wife gave me one of these for Christmas -
DSC01483.jpg


It's a Taurus Judge chambered for .45LC or 2 1/2" .410 shells. It has a 6.5" barrel.

I couldn't easily find a holster for it, so I made one -
DSC01468.jpg


I know it will do the job on small game -
DSC01510.jpg


With the right loads and not too much distance, it should be good for just about anything I'd want to put in the pot.

Andy
 
Andy,

Neat revolver, and nice work on the holster!

I have a .45 Colt/.410 too, but it's a 10" barrel for my T/C Contender. It's not nearly as handy as I thought it would be and it doesn't see much use. The revolver looks more useful.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
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