Woodsman's knife.

tarmix101

tarmix101

Joined
Jun 14, 2005
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There have been quite a few threads here lately about the "ultimate" knife. The ONE knife you should have with you and what that might look like.

The old adage has been "a survival knife is the one you have one you". I agree with that statement whole heatedly. There are many here that have their own ideas on what that knife should be, and thats one reason I like it here so much. It's nice to see what is relied upon, and why.

Choppers, 4" belt knives, 1/4" thick blades, thin blades, folders, and everything in between. As always there are factions. Carbon steel, stainless steel, large blades, scandi grind, flat grind, and I could go on and on.

In looking over the web for some time, a lot of the ultimate "Woodsman's knife" depends on where you live, and cultural influences.

For example. If you lived on Finland, Norway, or Sweden you might carry one of the examples below as the "one you relied upon":

Leuko
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Puukko
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If you lived in the US in the last half of the 1800's you may have carried one of these:

Green River 10.5" butcher knife
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Later on in the early 1900's it could have been this:

Herters Improved Bowie
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From 1915 on it may have been this! (THANKS CODGER!)

Marbles Woodcraft
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All the above knives have been used by true woodsman for a long time. The Pukkoo, and Leuko have been used for much longer than most.

There are many, many more examples. Grohmann, Western, Little Finn, and the list goes on. Not to mention those that made their own knives.

I guess all this rambling leads me to this. Do you think that the people that counted on their knives (trappers, butchers, mountain men, soldiers, cattlemen) looked at their choice of knife, limited as it might have been and said.... "this isn't going to work if TSHTF"?

Or do you think their intimate knowledge of their environment, nature, whatever you think might be relevant gave them more confidence no matter what they carried?

My thinking leads me to believe that without proper knowledge of what you are doing, there isn't a tool around now, nor back then that will save your skin.

With proper knowledge a Pukkoo or a Little Finn would serve you well in the woods however, it may not be able to do all the things a Busse, or one of NWA's BF survival knife could do. I have no misconceptions about what a machete or a khuk could do over a Bark River Woodland, but I would bet there are people out there that may have a false sense of security in their choice of tools/knives. Neither the $10.00 Mora not the $300.00 Busse is going to save you without knowing the fundamentals about surviving/living in the woods. I'm certainly not the expert, but like the learning process quite a lot.:D
 

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The Marble's Woodcraft was 1915, but I agree with your asessment. I believe that aside from the cultural preferences, personal familiarity with the tools of choice and the environment in which they were used were the confidence builders. Afterall failure to properly use a primary tool like a knife would eliminate you from the gene pool.

Codger
 
Learning how to make and utilize tools is what allowed mankind to prosper once out of the trees. If not, the apposable thumb was an evolutionary waste.

Make no mistake frontiersman were every bit as critical of their gear (probably more) just they had less choices than we do today.

That said an idiot with a tool is still an idiot.

Skam
 
Absolutely, and a good topic to discuss independently.

I come from a strong shooting background (would you have guessed? :rolleyes:) and the discussion always pops up about what is the best platform and caliber for a defensive weapon. The answer exists for the same reason as what your post discusses. It's always the indian, not the arrow (though I detest that little phrase). In a fight between a competent gunman (Cooper, Clint Smith, etc.) armed with a snub .22 revolver versus a relatively untrained/uneducated neophyte with a tricked out 1911 in .45, my money is still going to be on the competent fellow.

The same is true in the woods. If you don't understand woodcraft well enough, no blade will compensate for it. "The more you know, the less you need."

Thus we are pushed to decide what we want to have with us when out and about, as students of 'bushcraft/woodcraft' either advanced or novice. This can unfortunately be twisted into 'what if that's all you had?'.

A large part of this is the fun of blades, of collecting and using the crap out of them, of learning our likes/dislikes, admiring the steel and design, etc.. But it can become too easy to overlook the real point, which is becoming better woodsman/women in general. Sadly, some of us don't have enough time to get to the woods and practice this, and can only quell the wonderlust by buying a new toy to play with until we can get back out.

In the end, though, it's a good reminder to focus on our skills and not on our tools. Better to have confidence in yourself than in your blade.
 
I don't know about everyone else, but I personally (and this may be the beer talking) wouldn't want to be stuck out in the woods in a potential "survival situation" with only a red X to rely on. :p
Having said that, I agree with the premise of this thread, as do others here.
That skill and knowledge trumps gear every time, and it weighs nothing. I'm probably "underknifed" by some folks' standards, but I have a few tricks in my proverbial bag that always get me by. :thumbup:


Gautier
 
Didn't mean to nitpick and detract from a well thought out post. The patent was applied for in 1915, issued in 1916, and when it expired everyone and his brother made knives of that popular pattern (Remington, PAL, Jean Case, Case, Kinfolks, Western States, Schrade, etc.). So not only was it popular in the early part of the last century, but all the way up to WWII. In fact, it is still being made. Sorry again for the sidetrack! :o

Codger
 
Gautier said:
I don't know about everyone else, but I personally (and this may be the beer talking) wouldn't want to be stuck out in the woods in a potential "survival situation" with only a red X to rely on. :pGautier
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LOL.... :D pictures are showing on my end.
 
Gautier said:
I don't know about everyone else, but I personally (and this may be the beer talking) wouldn't want to be stuck out in the woods in a potential "survival situation" with only a red X to rely on. Gautier
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Fro those of you that were getting the big red x, I think I fixed it.
 
Yep, looks much more substantial now. I was kind of worried that all you were going out into the bush with was a big red X and a sign that says, "You Are Here". I can rest easy now.


Gautier
 
Very true thread, down to the point. I always emphasize and stress about which folder I'm going to take with me because that is the knife that I'm going to have with me all day long.

If I am planning an outing in the woods, it'll probably be my emerson commander, mainly because of the "wave" feature in case an emergency arises. Plus it has a nice rounded front and a good weight to it if I want to snap a few small branches with it.

All in all, it is (as stated by others) all about your knowledge....and apposable thumbs :p.
 
Actually... I do! It is marked "Patent Pending" :o

I still like it better than some of my earlier knives. :p
 
funny, sometimes it subconsciously sticks in your head, too.

I grew up mostly in the desert southwest, and bigger, but relatively thin* blades mean a lot in an environment like that than in the woods. in the woods, i'm now happier with anything from a puukko, nessmuk, or 5 inch american drop point than something like the sog government or an 8 inch bowie.

(And I made 3 months of fires this year on a jobsite without batoning, without using an axe, only using a knife for feathering. (even pulled out flint and steel a few times, but never got the hand drill to give me a good enough coal)- so i'm not in the "must have big blade for firewood" camp anymore. (though i do like my axe))

still, i find my mental thought processes going back to my teen years scouting in the desert and always manage to pack in the government somewhere.

* note: there's a noticeable trend towards thicker and thicker blades, which in some cases has reached an extreme that makes me think of gorilla bars instead of knives. an 8 inch bowie with a broad flat grind and a 1/8 spine is FINE, but seems really thin to people nowdays.
 
I lean toward the whatever you have at the time. I like to think that I could survive with almost any knife or even no knife at all. One thing I am pretty sure of is that most people even if they have a knife in a unexpected situation, it probably won't be a big knife. Much more likely it would be a folder or Multi tool. Survival is not to tough if you have all the time in the world to prepare.

Large Knives are much like packing a concealed handgun, if its to heavy or large, its apt to be at home in a drawer when you really need it. Most any of the Mora knives or knives in that size range make a pretty darn good all around tool.
 
Do you think that the people that counted on their knives (trappers, butchers, mountain men, soldiers, cattlemen) looked at their choice of knife, limited as it might have been and said.... "this isn't going to work if TSHTF"?
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As a rule, no. When people said that, they found a way to do something different. Look at the story, whether true or not, of Jim Bowie. He decided his old knife would not work for him, so he had one made to suit his needs. Problem is, it seems like he was kind of a dandy in some ways, and he was always changing his knife. I guess you could call him a knife nut.:D

This is personal opinion, but I think those that look at knives as a tool are a lot less worried about their capabilities, beyond the obvious needs they have. I doubt there is a mechanics forum where they all hash out the need for larger and heavier screwdriver tips and ultra duty ratchets. It seems like a lot of the banter comes from people who enjoy knives beyond their use as a knife.

When you read survival books from the 1960's, they say to have some matches, a good knife, proper clothing, etc. There is not a whole lot of talk about the knife, beyond having a decent one. So all this is my long winded way of saying that I seriously doubt many experienced people fretted too much over the knife that they carried. If it was an issue, they got something else, and there was no longer a reason to worry.
 
One of the biggest advantages we have today is such a HUGE selction of manufacturers, makers, steel types and handle materials. As time went on from the 1800's to present the selection of different tools broadened. The mountain men of the early 1800's didn't have much in the way of cutting tools to choose from. Mainly butcher knives. Most of what they had came from England and Germany. Custom knives didn't even exist. I remember when I was at the first Moran hammer-in listening to Bill tell the story about when he started making knives. In the 40's he said there were only a few custom knifemakers out there. Himself, Bo Randall, Rudy Ruana and Hoyt Buck. I'm sure there were others but these guys were making and putting knives into outdoorsman's hands.
I guess my point is like everything else, technology gives us more and more of a selection of products.
Scott
 
tarmix101 said:
I guess all this rambling leads me to this. Do you think that the people that counted on their knives (trappers, butchers, mountain men, soldiers, cattlemen) looked at their choice of knife, limited as it might have been and said.... "this isn't going to work if TSHTF"?
Click to expand...

No. But I also don't think they spent much time asking "If you could only have one. . ." To my knowledge, they always had several. Might be several of the same type, but several. They also didn't seem to be so afraid to carry a hatchet or axe with them. If you told one "I only carry one knife and don't bother with a hatchet because it's too hard to carry all day." Their reply would probably go something like "Go back home city boy."

A lot of the woodsmen of the past also went with a pack mule, and maybe a horse, with the equipment they'd need if they were going out for an extended time. There was no "I need to get my pack to under 10 pounds." Because the beast of burden carried it.

Things are different these days.

But I do wholeheartedly agree that a person should use what works for them. Might be nice if the threads were more telling what works for someone, and maybe people questioning what they see as weak points, rather than telling each other that their choice sucks because it isn't [pet knife].
 
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