Words of Thanks / Quick Question Regarding Patinas

Joined
Oct 27, 2006
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Greetings from Raleigh, NC everyone!

As most of you all might recognize I'm fairly new to the forum and still trying to learn my way around here. Hence, I tend to lurk in the shadows rather than participate in the latest discussions. However, I've been reading post after post (current and past) on the HI forum over the last few months and just wanted to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge on the subject of khukuris and their history of development throughout the centuries. I've come to grow quite fond of these blades and the superior hand craftsmanship put forth by the kamis to produce such wonderful tools and showpieces. They should be quite proud of their achievements as well as those of their forefathers.
I currently only own one khukuri type blade, a Pen knife. But soon a special order ASTK and a DOTD Sirupati snag will be added to the list. A WWII and 15" AK will hopefully follow soon thereafter if I'm lucky enough to shark one before the New Year.

With that said, I was hoping now to get some feedback from the forum regarding patina finishes on khukuris.

Over the weekend, I decided to try and produce a "patina" finish on the Pen knife I mentioned and its accessories using a traditional "chemical" cold bluing process. The bluing agent I chose was "Ospho-Blue" which was purchased from my local gunshop.

I started the process by stripping each metal surface of all traces of oil with a cleaning agent. Then, I wet sanded them to create a better adhesion surface on the steel. Finally, I stripped each piece one last time to remove any oil that may have remained. The blade, chakmak and karda were then dried with a hair dryer and laid upon brand new shop towels before bluing.

I started with the chakmak and karda and the Ospho-Blue worked perfectly; a deep dark bluish black patina developed instantaneously on these pieces. However, when I wiped down the Pen knife's blade, very little chemical reaction took place. Instead of a uniformed blue black finish, the Ospho-Blue only took effect in a couple of small spots throughout the blade (forgot to take a pic). The spots resembled rust stains; not a patina. These were easily buffed out with rubbing compound. The rest of the blade retained its original shine.

My question is, what (if anything) did I do wrong? Is there some type of protective coating on the main blades that I failed to remove? Is the steel of lower quality on the chakmak and karda thus making them easier to blue?

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance! Mac :cool:
 
Patina's form differently depending on a number of factors, including the steels used, the finish or polish on the exposed metal (coarser finishes will be more receptive to patinas that mirror polished ones), and what the steel is reacting with to cause the patina.

Your perception that the Pen Knife appears to have some small "rust" spots seems accurate, since both patina's and "rust" are forms of corrosion. Patina is a healthy layer of oxidized metal that is more resistant to further "bad" corrosion. The red rust is the bad stuff that can damage the knife and cause pitting and other degradation. If you see red rust, buff it out. Otherwise, it might actually be a patina, albeit different in appearance than what you thought it was going to be.

Pics would certainly help!

Here are a few threads with images you can look at...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=709035
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=703769

JGON
 
I use a cold-blue product by Birchwood-Casey. Here is the process:
-Sharpen the blade and then tape the edge to protect it
-Clean the blade of all residual grease, oil, sanding grit.
-Wipe the blade down with denatured alcohol and ensure that no fingerprints or residue remain.
-Follow the instructions on the cold-blue product- I use a cotton ball and evenly wipe it on using two coats.
-Wash off with hot water
-Use a fine steel wool and 3-in-One machine oil and buff the entire blued surface of the blade.
-Wipe down with clean machine oil and let sit for 24 hours to cure.

Tips:
Why tape the blade to protect it? First you'll ensure that you don't cut yourself. Second, the oxidization process will eat away the microscopic edge, therefore dulling it.

Cold-blue, no matter how evenly applied will have a tendency to wear off after using your khuk. You will get uneven rub marks where the blade bites into wood, vines, etc. I've used steel wool and oil to buff out these imperfections until the patina on the blade is a uniform battleship grey. I actually like it a lot better this way and it holds up after hard use.

Your other option is to forego the cold-blue and just patina the blade with an acidic solution.
 
Thanks gents. I appreciate the information you've shared and will give it another shot. MrMike, I'll heed your advice regarding taping the blade edge. Never even occured to me that the oxidation process could damage it.

Jgon, I'll definitely be sure to take pics this time...
 
I do a dappled finish that gives it an antique look easy to touch up and due to the uneven finish cold blue leaves why fight it just go with it


IMG-20101113-00026.jpg



nick003.jpg


AntiqueKhukuri002.jpg


HIKhukuri006.jpg


KnightCombat019.jpg
 
Great photos mang. I just received my DOTD Siru and now know what its patina potential could be.

On a side note, that's one nasty lookin' khuk in picture #2. I'd hate to ever be on the receiving end of that thing.

That particular one isn't an HI model, is it?
 
Another patina/etch idea which is easy and cheap. A mustard etch. Just finger smear the blade with mustard and wait about 30 min. Then clean (neutralize the acid with windex) and oil. Here is am example. Sorry for the crappy iPhone pictures. It really does look great in person, it just does not photograph well for me.

Here it is with Gulden's Spicy Brown Mustard applied in swirling circles.
Mustard%20Etch%20start%20.jpg


Mustard%20Etch%20Start%202.jpg


This is with the bevel polished
Mustard%20Etch%20Finish%201.jpg


This is what it looked like just after cleaning and waxing with Renaissance wax.
Mustard%20Etch%20Finish%202.jpg


The brown (rust-red in photo) areas are not rust. I did 2 rounds of etching and the patina took on a warm brown color is spots. It just looks like rust in the picture.
 
Now I'm no metallurgist so take this for what it's worth, but I think I may have a hunch as to why the cold blue did not take on your khukuri. If I'm not mistaken, himalayan imports uses recycled leaf springs for their khukuri blades which would imply that the steel is 5160. I remember reading somewhere that the karda and chakmak are made of 1095 or some plain carbon steel of that sort. 5160 is a high alloy spring steel which contains chromium to allow the steel to harden more deeply. This is the key as the chromium in 5160 might resist the chemical bluing process. Again, this is only a hunch, so take it for what it's worth.
 
BChou,

Thanks for the info! The surface metal on the chakmak/karda did feel a little "different" compared to the blade on the khuk and a lot harder to rough up. I wasn't sure if it was due to the high polished shine on the khuk or not. I'm going to give it another try and just use a heavier grit sandpaper to rough up the surface before applying the cold blue. Others here have had great success (see photos above) so it's obviously something I'm doing wrong on my end.
 
the only thing you did wrong was to sand them-bluing isn't about adhesion, it's about oxidation. I doubt it had any negative affects, it was just unnecessary. I probably would have used some sort of degreaser to get all the oil off the blade before attempting the blue... let it sit for a few days though, usually once the oxidation is catalyzed it builds over time. I remember my first mustard patina didn't turn out immediately, but a week later i had a really strong deep gray finish.
 
M-43kukhuri007.jpg


M-43kukhuri006.jpg


M-43kukhuri009.jpg


This is my M-43 after an application of Birchwood-Casey cold blue. The results were nice to look at, but the bluing was easily removed in a short amount of time.



I might try the mustard-patina thing next time. I like the results, though the swirly Ultimate Fighter looks very nice, as well.
 
IronHand,

Thanks for the pics. I just finished putting a cold-blue patina on my Pen knife. Came out pretty good but it was impossible to get an even finish. And yes, it does rub off easily. Next, I tried the "Gulden's mustard" technique on my Sirupati. I really loved these results. I'm hoping to have pics up in a few days. Give it a shot...
 
On a side note, that's one nasty lookin' khuk in picture #2. I'd hate to ever be on the receiving end of that thing.

That particular one isn't an HI model, is it?

It's an HI model inspired by a movie. Probably mummy returns? I got a shorter version of his. :) It's not a traditional khukuri since it has a second edge.

DSCF0130.JPG
 
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