Working with Elmax 0.104 steel

ashwinearl

ashwinearl

Joined
Nov 9, 2006
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I was asked to make a knife from 0.104" Elmax steel. I haven't worked much with stainless. With this steel and thickness, is this the kind of steel to grind after heat treat? They asked for a target HRC of 61-62.

The blade will be a 3" drop point.

Thanks.
 
ashwinearl said:
I was asked to make a knife from 0.104" Elmax steel. I haven't worked much with stainless. With this steel and thickness, is this the kind of steel to grind after heat treat? They asked for a target HRC of 61-62.

The blade will be a 3" drop point.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Not bad to grind if you have a sharp 60 grit blaze, or cubitron 2

A little more time then CPM154 and CPM S35vn but not as bad as CPM S60v and up.

I think it's the finishing that gets you with Vanadium steels, especially with hand finishes.

Here is one I finished in S60v, it was difficult to finish, I didn't enjoy it. Took a long time, perhaps easier with Elmax.
uDU9CNl.jpg
 
I'd like to grind as much as I can pre-heat treat, but am concerned of over grinding. I'll just see how it goes, if it seems hard to control for me, I'll send it off to heat treat and grind after.
 
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You can take Elmax and other non oil quench steels down to basically final dimensions prior to heat treatment. I have sent Elmax to Peters with sub 0.010” edges with no issues.
 
I made myself a couple of kitchen knives in thin Elmax and did all of the grinding post heat treat. As mentioned above it’s not much harder to work than other stainless steels on the grinder but hand sanding it was miserable. If you’re better at grinding than I am it may not be a big deal but it took me forever to get the finish where I wanted it off the grinder.
 
In my experience, the Elmax took a little more time then the s35vn but I was running it harder. The Bohler Uddlehom steels generally seem to grind better.

I'm excited learn from Stuart that Elmax can go super thin before heat treatment to Peter's.

So it doesn't really matter.

A pre-grind to 0.010" is impressive.

samuraistuart samuraistuart was that on a small knife?

skillgannon said:
How would you compare Elmax to S35VN to grind post heat treatment.
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Shawn is it, right? Those Elmax blades were hunters IIRC. It doesn’t matter if it’s A2, D2, AEBL, S35vn, M4, etc etc etc. If it is an air/plate quench steel, it can be taken to “almost” final dimensions. I say “almost” because some knives like kitchen knives work better with edge thickness (prior to sharpening) 0.005” and below, which should be ground that thin post heat treat. I would not recommend any steel be heat treated with edges that thin. It’s all about the harshness of the quench. The faster/harsher the quench, the thicker the edge needs to be. 0.040” is plenty thick for any steel. 0.010” is what I would say is minimum for air/plate quench. And a “tad” thinner is possible, as per experience, but that was pushing it. There was a very small warping with Elmax and CPMM4 that thin (sub 0.010”) on the edges, but not enough warp that couldn’t be taken out post HT grind for thin thin thin edge on a hunter. That’s why I say you can get away with 0.010” on air hardening steels, and IIRC Peters asks for 0.015” and up.

And of course, if you are going to oil quench an air hardening steel in medium speed oil, as is often done, keep those edges thicker. Pretend they are carbon steel. Again...how thin an edge can be taken prior to heat treat is mostly about quench speed.
 
Thanks for sharing, can't beat experience.

Very valuable knowledge.:thumbsup:

-Shawn



samuraistuart said:
Shawn is it, right? Those Elmax blades were hunters IIRC. It doesn’t matter if it’s A2, D2, AEBL, S35vn, M4, etc etc etc. If it is an air/plate quench steel, it can be taken to “almost” final dimensions. I say “almost” because some knives like kitchen knives work better with edge thickness (prior to sharpening) 0.005” and below, which should be ground that thin post heat treat. I would not recommend any steel be heat treated with edges that thin. It’s all about the harshness of the quench. The faster/harsher the quench, the thicker the edge needs to be. 0.040” is plenty thick for any steel. 0.010” is what I would say is minimum for air/plate quench. And a “tad” thinner is possible, as per experience, but that was pushing it. There was a very small warping with Elmax and CPMM4 that thin (sub 0.010”) on the edges, but not enough warp that couldn’t be taken out post HT grind for thin thin thin edge on a hunter. That’s why I say you can get away with 0.010” on air hardening steels, and IIRC Peters asks for 0.015” and up.

And of course, if you are going to oil quench an air hardening steel in medium speed oil, as is often done, keep those edges thicker. Pretend they are carbon steel. Again...how thin an edge can be taken prior to heat treat is mostly about quench speed.
Click to expand...
 
I ended up grinding about 15 knives in Elmax after heat treat due to some timing issues. As others have said, a 60 grit Blaze belt works well, just keep dunking. Profile them, drill all your holes and I at least knocked off the edges before HT just to save a little grit on the belts. If you don't have a surface grinder try to get the blanks flat before sending them off for HT. It isn't a lot of fun to try to hog off a bunch of material to flatten afterwards.
 
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