World Trade Center knives

Joss

Joss

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
7,353
What do you guys think about those knives? They're on eBay for the second time at least. They sure are nice knives but $25,000 is a ridiculously high price, no? What would be the price of each of those knives separately if they were made of "normal" steels?

JD
 
In a thread a few weeks ago in the "Blade Discussion Forum"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=279693
which discussed mostly tax issues by me and a couple other folks with respect to a charitable contribution deduction for this auction, I decided to try and guess what these might be worth as follows.

Here is my post from that thread, based primarily out of complete ignorance.

"Why don't we try and guesstimate the worth of these knives ourselves on a knife by knife basis? Then add them up!

There are 7 knives here. Let's estimate what each knife is worth as is EXCEPT made with standard steel blades (not WTC steel). Then lets add a premium to each knife due to the WTC steel that it's actually made from. After each knife is estimated, we'll tally the sheet to see the total value.


1. Designed and made by Pat & Wes Crawford. Overall length 10”, Blade length 4 1/2”; skeletonized titanium handle and blued blade steel and bolsters made of World Trade Center steel.

2. Designed and made by Gil Hibben. Overall length 8 1/4”, blade length 3 1/2”; immitation ivory handle with color-scrimmed scene of firefighters raising American flag at the WTC on one side and a ladder company shield color-scrimmed on reverse. Blade by Gil Hibben and scrimshaw by Rick Hutchings.

3. Designed and made by Bob Terzuola. Overall length 10 3/4”, blade length 5 5/8”; green canvas Micarta® handle and bead-blasted blade.

4. Designed and made by Mel Pardue. Overall length 8 5/8”, blade length 3 1/2”. Locking-liner folder with carbon fiber handle, flared bolster and damascus blade.

5. Designed and made by Jerry Fisk. Overall length 8 5/8”, blade length 4 1/2”. Stag handle with mortis-tang construction and 343-layer blade - one layer for each firefighter that was lost at WTC. Fisk’s
National Living Treasure stamp.

6. Designed and made by Bob Dozier. Overall length 8 1/4”, blade length 3 1/2”. Ancient elephant ivory handle with diamond inlay of Madagascar Island Ebony. Damascus blade by Daryl Meier and scrimshaw by Linda Karst Stone. Click here to view the scrimshaw detail.

7. Designed and made by Allen Elishewitz. Overall length 7 3/4”, blade length 3 3/8”. Ironwood scales folder with blade and bolsters of WTC steel.

Please don't get angry at my guesses. I need Les Robertson here. Please chime in to help me here. These guesses are assuming all knives are built exactly like above except with no WTC steel in them.
1. $950?
2. $1200?
3. $750?
4. $850?
5 $1500?
6. $1100?
7. $600?
total $6950

Now, I'll two and a half times the value for the WTC steel. $6950x2.5= $17,375
What do you think?"

Hell, I don't know!
 
Thanks. I think that your 2.5X factor is way too much. I think the WTC steels warrant maybe a 25% premium, not more. Of course, that's subjective.
 
Originally posted by Joss
Thanks. I think that your 2.5X factor is way too much. I think the WTC steels warrant maybe a 25% premium, not more. Of course, that's subjective.
Click to expand...

You may be right. That $17K price seems high to me after all the calculations. I really don't have a clue.

I might pay $10-12$K for them.
 
Individually you are probably correct. Each of these knives may be worth 25% more because they are made from WTC steel. The fact that this is a one only set that comes in an outstanding display case adds quite a bit more value to these knives. Are they worth $25,000.00? Probably not, but someday there is a darn good chance that these knives will be worth way more than $25,000.00. For now anyone that would bid on these knives is not doing so because the knives are worth what is being asked for them. They would be doing so to help out a good cause, not because they wwere looking to get a good value for their money.

In the past I have bid more than something is worth for things being auctioned of to help others or to help organizations that help others. That is what would be happening here. The fact that these knives could someday be worth way more than what is paid for them is a bonus.
 
I can't see any value in this, despite what anyone is willing to pay. Some people will pay a lot of money for just about anything. For example, Michael Jackson bought the bones of the Elephant Man for about a million dollars. Was it right to sell them to Michael Jackson? And what are they worth?

When tragedy is made to be, or thought of as an investment, isn't that BAD TASTE? Yes, there are many people who would line up to buy a piece of the Titanic, or the Space Shuttle Discovery pieces made into earrings. Someone would buy the framed bullet that killed Kennedy, or the car that Princess Diana died in, restored to original condition.. there are people who don't have a problem with any of it, I guess.

The real question I would wrestle with is, "Is this a fitting tribute, to have made these knives, or sold them? Does it pave the way for others to more profit from this tragedy also?" It turns my stomach to think about it. I understand that this is done as primarily a fundraising thing, however I can only imagine how some immoral people might be persuaded into selling "World Trade Center" steel products for the novelty, or profit of it. (especially if someone is able to get as much as $25,000 for these knives)
David
 
I think Keith is right on. When asked to participate in the project, I jumped right in for several reasons:
1) it was a chance to be a part of an historical and unique project.
2) It was a chance to contibute something to the NY firefighters as the proceeds would go to the Fire Dept. Burn Center.
3) I was born and bred in NYC and felt a desire to be a part of the whole 911 event, even in a small way.
But really, how can one value an item based on the materials it is made of? All of the paint and wood in the Mona Lisa would probably add up to a few dollars! If we were to charge for our knives based on the materials used, I would be charging about $65 plus my time!
Value is determined by the buyer, not the seller. Perhaps $25000 was overly optimistic on Keith's part but I know that there will never be another such knife project and the cause for which they were made was a good and just one. I'm humbled to have been a part of the endeavor. BOB
 
Bob,
I hope your knives will go to a good home, sold to someone who is very rich, very generous, loves knives, and will see them in their true spirit. (not just the investment value..)
David
 
Bob,
thanks for participating in this, it's for a great cause. Someone, somewhere, yes someone with alot of money, is going to have a unique piece of history. The money is going to a worthy cause, philanthropic items sell for more than their value all the time, it's nothing new.
As someone who lost friends there, stood outside the fence with a broken heart while smoke was still pouring out, saw and smelled it everyday while going to and coming from work, and was invited inside the "pit" by the NYPD for the ceremony marking the end of the recovery phase, this project has my wholehearted support. IMO the only mistake they made was waiting too long before starting the auction.
Others have done it. Bob Dozier made 2 knives with WTC mixed in the damascus. One was given to a firefighter and the other was auctioned off. Spyderco made 2819 knives with WTC steel embedded in the handle named after my friend P.O. John D'Allara, with all profits going to a fund.
Anyway, this is just my opinion but I think it's a good thing.

BTW, there was a company in Ga. that got ahold of some of the steel and made belt buckles trying tp profit from them. The public outcry was strong enough that they took them off the market.
 
Originally posted by bobterzuola
But really, how can one value an item based on the materials it is made of? All of the paint and wood in the Mona Lisa would probably add up to a few dollars! If we were to charge for our knives based on the materials used, I would be charging about $65 plus my time!
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I never suggested anything like only charging for material + time only. I'm well aware of what goes into the value of custom knives, having spent quite a bit in this area myself.
 
Originally posted by lifter4Him
IMO the only mistake they made was waiting too long before starting the auction.
Click to expand...

Dave, that is what I have been wondering about for a long time. If the knives had been finished and auctioned on the first anniversary of 9/11 I suspect they would have gotten the $25,000 or more.
 
Since I first saw this set of knives I have wondered exactly what is WTC steel. I'm pretty sure it isn't S30V and it probably isn't even 440A. I guess there is some high carbon steel that was used in the construction of the WTC and these knives - what would it be?
 
The steel sent to me by Keith was a section of angle iron about 2x2 and about 12" long. The steel is structural, not knife blade steel. The knives were made as a tribute and were never intended to be used. It was a neat idea at the time and I think it still is.
I wish someone had thought of this project for the USS Arizona. Think what a treasure that would be today!
I did a series of knives with stainless steel handles that came from the USS Intrepid, now a floating museum in NY. I donated the first ten to the museum, had their permission to sell the next 20 and gave one each to my sons and my father.
I wish knifemakers would do other similiar projects of tribute and remembrance and engage in the creation of heirloom knives that will live on long after we are dust.
Luv Ya All, BOB
 
I think this project was a good idea. It is a good way to raise money for a good cause.
These knives truly are one of a kind. I think putting these knives up for auction on Ebay took away some of the prestige of such a set. There should have been a better, more classy maybe, place to auction these off.

Also, by not assigning some sort of market value to these knives so that the amount paid above that assigned market value would be looked at as a true donation, and be tax deductible as a donation, probably hurt this auction a bit.

I know this sounds tacky to think that someone would only buy these knives and "donate" a lot of money for them if there was a tax deduction available but, that truly is a helpful, and substantial, incentive for giving large donations here in the US.
 
If the steel isn't functional, they're not knives - they're knife-like sculptures, or objects, or models.
 
Originally posted by Joss
If the steel isn't functional, they're not knives - they're knife-like sculptures, or objects, or models.
Click to expand...

Very true!

edited to add:

However, you could probably use them to butter toast. :D

Just kidding of course! I would like to have these but can't afford them.
 
Ok, I'm gonna bow out of this one. It's not going in a good direction for me and about to get very explosive.We dont joke about this here. Ever.

Have a great New Year all, and may we never face horrors like that day again.
 
Originally posted by lifter4Him
Ok, I'm gonna bow out of this one. It's not going in a good direction for me and about to get very explosive.We dont joke about this here. Ever.

Have a great New Year all, and may we never face horrors like that day again.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here is making light of the horrible events that took place on September 11.

This thread is a discussion about some wonderful knives for sale and their value in the market place. Opinions will differ about this.

Some people may believe these knives should sell for $50-$100K because of what they represent. These folks may actually believe that to suggest anything less than that for their value is an insult to those that suffered that day, which is everyone in this country to some degree or another.

No one is making light of this tragic event by suggesting these knives are not worth this much money. At least I hope not.

edited: grammar and spelling
 
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