World War IIII Update - Handle Mods from Robert

Joined
Mar 8, 1999
Messages
1,760
I got this message from Robert last night (pictures first):

wwiiihandle2.jpg


wwiiihandle3.jpg


Here are some pictures of the second handle prototype. I'm fairly
enthusiastic about this version. What you see in the pictures is a set
of oversize handles with some of the features that the guys suggested on
the forum. By oversize, I mean that the handles have not been trimmed to
the exact profile of the handle tang (or in the case of the forward
part, the tang has not been trimmed to the handle profile). When this is
done, the change to the tang will be irreversible, so I wanted to get
some feedback before putting the tang to the grinder.

The changes are:

The bottom of the handle is formed into a 2+2 finger grip in an attempt
to hold the hand in place, making forward motion less likely. Even
without the tang being trimmed, this modification (in combination with
the others) seems to work very well.

The palm swell has been moved back about 1/2". The dimensions on the
swell and the forward trough are the same as before based on some flex
testing I did with some scrap material. The rear trough measures .700"
across the handle. This actually had more of an effect than I would have
expected. The grip is much more natural and secure.

The big change comes at the front of the grip. I created a "forward
swell" measuring .950" across the handle. In addition, I angled the
swell at the natural angle of the hand when it grips the knife. I hope
this feature will be well received, because I think it is the single
most effective change in improving the security of the grip.

I also radiused the top front of the grip to make the front less blunt.

You'll notice that the grip has no pins or thong hole. It is held in
place by carpet tape. I will add pins and a thong tube if this design is
well received. I will also be doing an experiment when I put the pins
in. I have had trouble getting nuts for the bolted and glued handles. I
also had the rather thin section at the bottom of the counterbore break
when I took the first handles off. I obtained some black Micarta pin
material (1/4" dia.) from Koval. I will try this as pins on the
prototype. It's more expensive than brass, but it should blend in well
on the black handles. It should also look quite "muted" on the other
handle colors. For those of you with white handles, let me know if you
want something a little more elegant. The big advantages are that it
will provide the best possible bond to the handle scales. It can also be
"pre-finished" before epoxying the handles in place.

I personally LOVE the changes. We definitely have the right guy on the job.

Comments (Robert will be surfing tonight)?

------------------
Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
The handle looks good to go to me. The acid test is when it gets to my hand. I think we have a good craftsman on the job.

Cheers, and Happy Holidays.

ts

------------------
Guns are for show. Knifes are for Pros.
 
The new handle design looks great to me, I say go for it.

------------------
p1445
Beat it to fit, paint it to match.
 
This new handle looks like just the ticket to me. Very nice palm swells and the swell at the top should help with hand slippage as well as give the kydex sheath something to lock onto. Very cool! I have a question about the micarta pins. How strong are they in shear compared to brass rod? I know they`re more than enough for an average knife but the WWIII isn`t your average knife,heh heh. I`m picturing some folks hammering with the butt of these things which could put a lot of stress on the pins. All black would be sleek looking though if it`s strong enough. Marcus
 
I'm impressed! I think we have a winner here. You have my vote to go forward.
Merry Christmas!!!!

Mike
 
I share the general enthusiasm for the updated design, as well as the concern about the strength of Micarta pins. But it's clear we have the right guy working on the problem, and I have confidence in his decision as long as he's aware of the concern.
 
GREAT! You know, we ought to email Edgeworks and have them give the blessing. As I remember the prototype sheath, the ferrule shape is not really the part that the sheath holds on to (it holds on to the flat part of the edge below the Cho.

------------------
Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Excellent design--I love it. I don't think I would change a thing. It looks ergonomically perfect. I also love the idea of using micarta pins, because it will bond and blend in well, but I am also unsure of their shear strength. Would the micarta pins hold while doing serious pounding against a hard surface with the butt? I'm not putting down the idea of using micarta pins; I just am totally ignorant of their shear strength. In fact, if they'll resist shear well, I think it's a fantastic idea--very tactical, excellent bonding ability, zero corrosion, etc. I especially love the swell at the front end, and the downward curve along the top front.

Well done, Robert. Your design has my vote, and Craig was right--you are definitely the 'Handle Meister.' I can't wait to see how this looks with olive micarta!

[This message has been edited by X-Head (edited 22 December 1999).]
 
The question of the strength of the micarta pins is an interesting one. I learned the following:

Micarta and brass are surprisingly similar in tensile and flexural strength. Shear strength is not listed in any of my references. I think I understand why, but I'll leave the explanation until after I'm sure.

The epoxy has a shear strength of 2500psi. probably a lot less than the lowest estimate for either pin material.

Micarta is 10 times less stiff than brass. I originally saw this as an advantage. Now I'm not so sure. When you start talking about impact, and the possibility of that impact breaking the epoxy bond, stiffer pins to absorb that impact seem like an advantage.

As you say, this is not a knife to be used under ordinary conditions. Let's use the brass pins. I'll darken them if I can.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes,
Bob Couture
 
The forward swell (thumb swell?)is good. The kukri isn't primarily a thrusting knife, but I wouldn't want to lose the thrusting capability because I was afraid my hand would slide forward onto the sharp blade. CS (don't stone me) kukris have a good handle shape.

bug


[This message has been edited by bug (edited 30 December 1999).]
 
Craig, the handle looks great! Robert, I believe function supersedes esthetics, but, personally, I find functional design to be the most pleasing. I can't wait to hold one.

Scott
 
I have read (can't remember where) that linen Micarta makes superb handle scale material. I immediately thought, "The relatively big square holes in the linen must allow the epoxy to sag a bit in the center of each square, producing a coarse, non slip, orange peel surface."
 
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