Would Anyone Like To Try And Sharpen A Knife Made From A File For Me?

G

Gene

Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
1,781
I have a knife made from a file and I've tried to sharpen it myself using diamonds. No luck. I've also sent it to one of the best sharpeners here, (don't ask, I won't tell you his name for personal reasons), and he couldn't sharpen it either and sent it back with the blade reprofiled but not sharpened.

Is there anyone out there that would be willing to try to sharpen this?

I've heard of a guy that uses cardboard wheels that says he can sharpen anything. Do any of you know his name?

I'm just so tired of trying to get an edge on this thing and would really like to know if an edge can really be put on this knife! :confused:
 
By the way, I know how to sharpen and have sharpened knives with all the hard steels and this knife is the only one that has defeated me!

Anyone out there want to take this on?

I've e-mailed the maker and asked him if he would be willing to do it but I'm waiting for a reply.
 
It may not be hardened and tempered correctly.It it wont take an edge easily,that is probably the reason.
 
Gene said:
I have a knife made from a file and I've tried to sharpen it myself using diamonds. No luck. I've also sent it to one of the best sharpeners here, (don't ask, I won't tell you his name for personal reasons), and he couldn't sharpen it either and sent it back with the blade reprofiled but not sharpened.

Is there anyone out there that would be willing to try to sharpen this?

I've heard of a guy that uses cardboard wheels that says he can sharpen anything. Do any of you know his name?

I'm just so tired of trying to get an edge on this thing and would really like to know if an edge can really be put on this knife! :confused:
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That would be richard j . Send him a PM - he's a real good guy!
 
Gene said:
I have a knife made from a file and I've tried to sharpen it myself using diamonds. No luck. I've also sent it to one of the best sharpeners here, (don't ask, I won't tell you his name for personal reasons), and he couldn't sharpen it either and sent it back with the blade reprofiled but not sharpened.

Is there anyone out there that would be willing to try to sharpen this?

I've heard of a guy that uses cardboard wheels that says he can sharpen anything. Do any of you know his name?

I'm just so tired of trying to get an edge on this thing and would really like to know if an edge can really be put on this knife! :confused:
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What's wrong with it? Are you forming a burr to fast? unable to form a burr? edge too thick?

Can you post a pic of it?
 
It's only steel so it can't be harder than the diamonds, diamonds will remove material from the edge. But the blade may be so hard that the edge is chipping away as you are sharpening. Or so soft that any edge formed rolls into a burr in use. Have you looked at the edge with a magnifying glass to see what's going on?
 
What are the specs on the knife as far as edge thickness behind the bevel and angle? Some steels just can't be sharpened, and something made from a file may or may not fall into that category. Some steels burr heavily, others just chip out real bad. I would think that if the previous technique didn't work (the guy who did it did a tremendous job thinning and getting my Spyderco Superhawk sharper than factory) nothing will, but if my back wasn't recovering from surgery and the edge was thin enough my Shapton Glasstones never met a steel they couldn't sharpen, but I've only tried common and premium steels on them, not a file. If diamonds don't work (what grits did you use?) I'm not sure anything will.

Mike
 
I think your problem is the thickness, the first knife I made was 1/4" thick, there was an edge but it didn't cut anything even going after through diamond stones to a strop loaded with .5 micron CrO. It did not cut anything because it was not thin enough, after regrinding the whole thing very thin, it's become a hand laser
 
gene sent me the knife to check out and try to work up a burr on it which he couldnt do. there is a problem with the heat treat. i tried a v edge and a convex edge on the knife and it would push cut paper but not very well, gene even heard it over the phone. when i took on the job to check out why the edge chipped and why he couldnt work up a burr, i didnt promise to get it shaving sharp. i made a video of it push cutting newspaper before my camera died which i posted on my new website. i didnt charge gene to sharpen it and i even paid to ship it back out of my own pocket. when he said it wasnt sharp i asked him to send it back so i can check it out again and maybe get it rockwell tested since i didnt get it tested the last time. i think the knife might have a soft core but a rockwell test will tell what the problem is for sure. gene, send it back to me and let me get it rockwell tested.
here is the link to the video of the knife push cutting paper before i boxed it up and shipped it off the next day. http://sites.google.com/site/richardjsknives/Home/more-knife-pics-and-vids its this video MLNA0002.AVI
 
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If it's improperly heat treated,you won't get a decent edge that will hold up.It will either chip or roll over during use.Whoever made it should have stood behind it IMO.
 
Seals said:
If it's improperly heat treated,you won't get a decent edge that will hold up.It will either chip or roll over during use.Whoever made it should have stood behind it IMO.
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I hesitate to stick my neck out on this one (again) but I tend to agree. I'm really curious as to what the dickens is going on here.

Gene, if you want me to give it a shot, drop me a line. There won't be any fee because I'm not sure what I can do about it, although I have a couple ideas. Mainly I'd like to satisfy my own curiosity.
 
Gene, if you get in touch with the original maker of that knife, ask him what kind of file he started with and how he heat-treated it. That would probably help us figure this out.

Gene said:
I've heard of a guy that uses cardboard wheels that says he can sharpen anything. Do any of you know his name?
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ronsec said:
That would be richard j . Send him a PM - he's a real good guy!
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Ron, richard j uses I've heard of a guy that uses cardboard wheels that says he can sharpen anything. Do any of you know his name?[/QUOTE]

ronsec said:
That would be richard j . Send him a PM - he's a real good guy!
Click to expand...

Ron, richard j uses kratex paper wheels, not cardboard. Totally different animal. They're made by a professional, not some fella with a bottle of rubber cement and an old shipping box. I won't vouch for the paper wheels because I haven't used them yet. But I'm definitely on the verge of ordering some; after reading through the manufacturer's website, the concept seems very sound, and safe, to me.

As to homemade cardboard wheels, that seems like a terrible idea to me. For two reasons...

A) I'm sure you know that lots of folks cut cardboard to see how long their edge will stay sharp. The reason they use cardboard is because it's absolute hell on a fine edge, because it's full of impurities including clay and grit. Some cardboard contains very high percentages of recycled material so you really have no idea what's in there.

I don't understand how you could expect consistent performance from a tool made of inherently inconsistent material. My observations are based on 10 years of experience in the printing industry. I've cut more cardboard and changed more slitter wheels than most of you will ever see. :)

B) take a look at the edge of a piece of cardboard. Note the corrugations. Now cut that piece into a circle and look again. You have a tremendously varied and unstable surface chock-full of holes for a work-piece to get caught in. Not to mention, rubber cement was never intended to hold together things that are subject to heat, friction, and spinning at thousands of RPMs. Take a look at the cardboard wheel thread and you'll see that the forum owner closed it because it's dangerous.

"I'm all about homebrew solutions for everyday problems, but homebrew power machinery is a different matter. I'm closing this." -- Spark

I completely agree. You could make your own grinding stones out of concrete, too, I suppose. :rolleyes: But I won't be anywhere near your shop if you actually use them.

I'm NOT here to bag on anyone, and I apologize for derailing this thread. Do what you want, but don't ignore safety concerns from folks with experience. :thumbup:"]Razor Sharp brand paper wheels, not cardboard. Totally different animal. They're made by a professional, not some fella with a bottle of rubber cement and an old shipping box. I won't vouch for the paper wheels because I haven't used them yet. But I'm definitely on the verge of ordering some; after reading through the manufacturer's website, the concept seems very sound, and safe, to me.

As to homemade cardboard wheels, that seems like a terrible idea to me. For two reasons...
A) I'm sure you know that lots of folks cut cardboard to see how long their edge will stay sharp. The reason they use cardboard is because it's absolute hell on a fine edge, because it's full of impurities including clay and grit. Some cardboard contains very high percentages of recycled material so you really have no idea what's in there. I don't understand how you could expect consistent performance from a tool made of inherently inconsistent material. My observations are based on 10 years of experience in the printing industry. I've cut more cardboard and changed more slitter wheels than most of you will ever see. :)
B) take a look at the edge of a piece of cardboard. Note the corrugations. Now cut that piece into a circle and look again. You have a tremendously varied and unstable surface chock-full of holes for a work-piece to get caught in. Not to mention, rubber cement was never intended to hold together things that are subject to heat, friction, and spinning at thousands of RPMs. Take a look at the cardboard wheel thread and you'll see that the forum owner closed it because it's dangerous and stupid.

"I'm all about homebrew solutions for everyday problems, but homebrew power machinery is a different matter. I'm closing this." -- Spark

I completely agree. You could make your own grinding stones out of concrete, too, I suppose. :rolleyes: But I won't be anywhere near your shop if you actually use them.

I'm NOT here to bag on anyone, and I apologize for derailing this thread. Do what you want, but don't ignore safety concerns from folks with experience. :thumbup:
 
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Thanks for all the well intentioned replies. A nice gentleman has offered to try his luck with it and I'm going to send it to him. If he can accomplish the impossible, (it seems!), and get this thing with a cutting edge, I'll be so grateful. Thanks again everybody and I'll keep you posted.

Oh yeah, I didn't hear back from the maker as I asked if he would be willing to try and get it sharp but I'm sure he's busy. I'll send it to this gentleman and see if he can work some magic.
 
Richard has done a great job on knives with decent steel that I have sent him. It could well be the knife. Even if you get a edge, it probably won't hold it. IMO
 
Gene said:
Thanks for all the well intentioned replies. A nice gentleman has offered to try his luck with it and I'm going to send it to him. If he can accomplish the impossible, (it seems!), and get this thing with a cutting edge, I'll be so grateful. Thanks again everybody and I'll keep you posted.

Oh yeah, I didn't hear back from the maker as I asked if he would be willing to try and get it sharp but I'm sure he's busy. I'll send it to this gentleman and see if he can work some magic.
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If you actually paid for this knife i would think you would be quite upset (screaming) for a full refund.A knife that wont easily take a edge is worthless.Id say if Richard cant sharpen it,it cant be sharpened.No offense,just my opinion.
 
I am the maker of that knife. I made that one when I was new to making, (a long time ago, well before I started serial numbering them). Gene, I haven't checked my email, I just got back in from a camping trip. This is the first I have heard that it has had a problem. As for standing behind my work, ask anyone who has bought a knife from ME. I can't be held responsible for what is done to a blade once it leaves my shop.... I also have a bad habit of giving away knives that may not be "perfect". Shame on me.

I did get an email from you, Gene, asking about sharpening tips a few weeks ago (if memory serves right). I did not realize this was that much of a problem then.

I heat treat and temper everything I make, large and small. I use a convex grind and a convex bevel and that is why I suggest stropping on leather and sandpaper. Trying to sharpen a convex bevel on a flat anything is going to take a while.

I would like to see a pic of that knife, or at least try to sharpen it. I don't know what has been done to it so far, so I may or may not be able to fix it.

Gene, pm me and let me know where you got it. I am off to your new email email now. David


Just checked email. Gene, I gave my address in the response. ship it to me and I will see what I can do. David
 
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