Would this pass the NY State smell test?

C

charlesbjr

Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
448
I know one handed openers are illegal in NY State unless used for hunting, fishing, etc. with a valid license. I wanted to know if the type of knife ever comes into question.

For example, this past hunting season, I saw someone opening and cleaning a dear with a Cold Steel Spartan, and what a fantastic job it did. The guy put his finger over the spine of the blade and the dear opened as if it had a zipper. When he was done, he folded it it and put it back in his pocket. However, I think this knife was designed for more of a tactical purpose. Just wondering if that really matters (for a single edge while hunting with a valid license)?
 
New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a
citizen of the United States...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

- Section 265.00 Definitions...
4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife
which has a blade which opens automatically by hand
pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in
the handle of the knife.
5. "Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]
5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which
has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand
pressure applied to a button, lever, spring or other
device in the handle of the knife.
5-b. "Metal knuckle knife"
means a weapon that, when closed, cannot function as a set of
metal knuckles, nor as a knife and when open, can function as
both a set of metal knuckles as well as a knife.
Source: http://www.knife-expert.com/sta-law.htm#N-R


One handed openers are not illegal in New York State.
 
Yup, read it and do understand that they are legal for the noted exceptions. However, would a one handed opener that is not "specifically designed" for hunting or fishing be viewed any differently?
 
In my opinion (and I'm not a lawyer or LEO), the design of a knife is subjective. In other words, I may call the Spyderco Tenacious a tactical fighting knife, while you may call it a hunting/skinning knife. I don't think a knife will be looked at differently based on what it was designed to do. However, a knife may simply LOOK "bad" as in it's all black, there are spikes on the handle etc. In this case, it might sway an officer's opinion on what you are intending to do with the knife. But again, if you are using a deer skinner as your everyday carry, or a Kershaw Skyline as a deer skinner, I don't think you'll have any problems.


Edit: If you are using a legal knife as defined by the law posted above, I don't see how you could have any problems no matter how you're using it (assuming the use is a lawful one).

I'm interested to hear other opinions.
 
ans7812 - I would agree with your opinion. If the knife was not designed for "purely" hunting and you were using it for such, why would it be questioned. As long as it is being used for a lawful purpose.

Thanks for your input.
 
Been down this road a few times. An assisted opening knife, thumb stud, spydie hole whatever is not illegal upstate NY as long as It can NOT be flicked open with wrist action. Once the action is lose enough to flick open it is a gravity knife subject to the laws in post #2.


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Charles, I see you are still nervous! Upstate in not NYC and when hunting, your license allows for the carry of a gravity knife, which I know this is out of the box due to blade weight. This is a bit big, but when carried hunting I think you would be Ok. I realise you are worried most about the fact that one could call this a "dangerous knife" since it is a weapon by design, but I thnink if used while hunting, you would be OK.
Here is the knife:
http://www.trueswords.com/cold-steel-spartan-folding-knife-p-4990.html
 
Tom19176, you are correct! I was wondering if this knife (or a similar knife like it) would fall under a "dangerous knife" even though it does fall under the law. The curve of the Spartan blade or even a small Kukri is amazing at dressing big game (or an all around camp knife). I would not have believed it if I didn't see it for myself. Just wish the blade was a bit shorter.

As always, thanks for the input!
 
Would lockbacks be a problem in NYC if they can't be opened with one hand? I am thinking of hunters, like Fallkniven TK4 or U2, or a traditional lockback, like the Queen liner lock.
 
Greetings Arty: Yes, a lockback could be a problem. It appears that this and a majority of inquiries regarding the legality of certain knives and their possession, as interpreted by the NYC Criminal Justice system, is based up the supposition that the laws will be enforced, interpreted and at least eventually applied as written. This is not a correct assumption. Statistically, your knife will likely not receive the ATTENTION of law enforcement personnel. If it does, the ATTENTION, not the knife, is the problem. Forum members have repeatedly sought to learn what is necessary to legally comply with what they believe to be applicable laws and prohibitions while carrying or possessing one type of knife or another. The difficulty in determining what will be treated as legal or illegal lies not in the specific statutes laws definitions but in their application and interpretations. The weapons laws were motivated by and written for, persons who were not primarily concerned with preserving or supporting the interests of knife owners and users. Just as we here are avidly pro knife, there are a VERY large number of persons in NYC that are even more staunchly anti knife. While we may devote considerable time, effort and money in the pursuit of our interests in knives, there are MANY in NYC who, for a myriad of reasons, expend their resources in the furtherance of what they believe to be the "greater priority" of their suppression. Whether the motivation is personal, social, political, philosophical or otherwise, the criminal justice system in NYC is closely allied with the priorities of those individuals and institutions who do not wish an "average" person to carry a knife ~ any knife. In practice, any possible interpretation of law (almost regardless of how unreasonable or inaccurate it may be ) which furthers these "greater priorities", will be encouraged and supported. Those entities who empower, fund and control the criminal justice institutions functionally view knives as either outright weapons, potential weapons or as contrivances which must be restricted, controlled and suppressed. Given sufficient articulation, even a cutting instrument which is only marginally useful by design, function or size can be interpreted as illegal and therefore presumptively putting it's possessor in legal jeopardy. Think in terms of~ how can a highly experienced anti-knife bureaucracy, by whatever means or methods, determine a knife or it's possessor to be in violation of law. That is the institutionalized mindset which unfortunately too many have confronted in new York City. Many without success. OldDude1
 
OldDude1, you speak with the wisdom of seeing what happens in the wonderful system that is NYC justice. When I served, you would have been laughed out of the station house for taking someone in for a simple knife CPW charge. Today, you could put yourself in for a metal if you wrote up how you had to struggle to take the knife out of someone's pocket...lol...ANy knife carried as a weapon is illegal in NY. Any item carried as a weapon is equally illegal if carried with intent to use as a weapon and yes that includes self defense as the reason. A roll of quarters carried to use as a slug for punching would hold the same charge as a gravity knife if you stated it was carried for that reason, or if you used it as such. Fun stuff right?

..." The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk,
stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use
primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent
to use the same unlawfully against another"
 
I grew up in NYC and everyone thought that blade length would be the deciding factor - knives had to be 3" or less to be OK. In Chicago, it is 2 1/2" or less.
I have always hated slip joints, since I cut myself when one closed on my finger as I used it. When I was a kid in Manhattan - the only guns on the street were zipguns - home made 22s, made with rubber bands and nails.
Who would have thought that it would be easy for gangbangers to get guns, but illegal to carry a small lockback of liner lock.
 
Tom19176: Thank you for you observations. I have found your thread replies regarding New York City to be consistently objective and patient. You are of course quite correct. Unfortunate but true. OldDude1
 
Here's a good one cited in "case Law" in NY

"Paint brush found in possession of a housepainter while on
his way home from work was not the kind of instrument
covered by... this section, prohibiting the carrying of a
dangerous weapon."

Some poor painter must have gotten arrested on this -hard to believe. Cop had to be real dumb-He should have to have been made to cover the Painters legal fees.
 
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