Wouldn't it be nice.

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Fred.Rowe

Fred.Rowe

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May 2, 2004
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If I purchase a new sidearm it comes with information on the caliber, projectile size and speed and effective use. Wouldn't it be nice if when you purchased a new knife it came with pertinent information other than steel used; such as weight, stock thickness used, grind angles along with cutting edge treatment its original sharpening angle [ whether flat or convex] and the Rockwell hardness. All this information is in the hands of the manufacturer and for me, it would be mighty handy to possess.
When the new owner went to sharpen the blade they would not be guessing as to the angles or abrasive that would work best.
I believe there are a few makers and manufacturers that do this but it would be helpful to the new owner if it was the standard. An informed buyer is someone who makes more sound purchases; ending up with knives that will serve him better.
 
Those things have never been an issue for me but I see how extra info could help.

I bought a cheapie postage scale and use it for weighing edc gear (read knives), an electronic micrometer for, well, measuring and the grind angles can be changed to suit a persons needs pretty easily with diamond abrasives IMO or powered sharpening equipment.

As for Rockwell hardness, most production knives have been dumbed down, that is, tempered a few HRC lower to minimize damage when used by the masses so upping the HRC points there would be nice... :D
 
Wouldn't it be nice if when you bought a car it had a list of where every part was made, what elements composed the materials in it, the specific grind of the cam lobes, an ecu map, instructions to check the tolerances between piston and sleeve and the miles per gallon for each gear at every speed?

Wouldn't it be nice if computers came with the specifications for processor voltage, amperage and wattage, the brand of ram, the weight of the hard drive and the exact size of every key? Also, the lumen output for screen and and the exact amount of radiation it emits.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could just call or write the knife company to get this info? The Internet makes your complaint silly anyways... you are on it writing the post so look it up. The reason it's not included is because most people don't care or understand like bladeforum addicts. We like to know this but it's like the above into to the average consumer. Bladeforum people have a real knife addiction and it's hard to feed it. More!

If you wan't to know this information, then you are not a general consumer when it comes to that product.
 
I do not find it a silly complaint. While I agree many people would not want or care about this info the manufacturer already has this info. It would not cost them too much to include a little slip of paper packed with the knife that included such information.
I think that would be neat and would add a little more of a personal touch.
I remember the days when you would by something and you got the "Congratulations on the purchase of your new whatever it was....." and a description of the product etc.
 
I don't think it's a silly request at all although I agree that most people don't care. Some people even drive GM cars - no offence please!
I personally ask the knife maker for details like edge thickness before sharpening, grind type and all that above if I don't get that info in the first place. I have had a few very disappointing responds though: "there is no way I can tell what the angle is" was a response once from a knife maker to my question "what is the angle of the scandi grind?" But then I just walk away.
 
In my experience, matching the factory angle gives much worse performance than setting my own.
 
Honed_Edge said:
Wouldn't it be nice if when you bought a car it had a list of where every part was made, what elements composed the materials in it, the specific grind of the cam lobes, an ecu map, instructions to check the tolerances between piston and sleeve and the miles per gallon for each gear at every speed?

Wouldn't it be nice if computers came with the specifications for processor voltage, amperage and wattage, the brand of ram, the weight of the hard drive and the exact size of every key? Also, the lumen output for screen and and the exact amount of radiation it emits.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could just call or write the knife company to get this info? The Internet makes your complaint silly anyways... you are on it writing the post so look it up. The reason it's not included is because most people don't care or understand like bladeforum addicts. We like to know this but it's like the above into to the average consumer. Bladeforum people have a real knife addiction and it's hard to feed it. More!

If you wan't to know this information, then you are not a general consumer when it comes to that product.
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In truth I'm a maker and see this as most makers do; knives are are a combination of angles and lines, curves and spirals, with intersecting forms. A very complex tool contained in its simple form. When a maker designs a knife, its not a whim, without a thought process behind it. Its a creation with the sharpened edge the goal. A maker works on the edge from the beginning of the grind; through control of the angles and the lines.
You say the general public is not smart enough or conceptual enough to get this knife making and sharpening thing; its the computer age, go there for your information. Its only edge nerds who have interest in such matters or care enough to understand.

Having done knife shows for years, both a as maker and an inventor, I've found people to be very perceptive, if you take the time to pass along information on grinds and sharpening technique. In truth, they are starved for it and can tie up a table for hours if allowed.

The next time you go to a show, if thats something you do, stop by a skilled makers table and see if you don't learn something, I can assure you that you will.

Fred

Your analogies using computers and cars did not seem relevant to knife sharpening or the OP in general, at least seen through my eyes.
 
The analogies were not meant to be a direct parallel, just using some sarcasm to set up the point that a lot of people don't/might not want to know that stuff. So, people at knife shows are into knifes and will talk about them for hours..... oh. Well that's not like here at all is it? Also, I didn't mean silly as stupid or ridiculous, don't circle the wagons yet.

The vast majority of people who have a knife in their pocket don't need or want the paper. If it is a cheap "gas station" or Home Depot knife I doubt papers mean much to that buyer. This makes up many knife owners. If it's a serious knife nut, like us, we know all that stuff well before the knife hits the mail box. This also is a large percent. The papers just don't, to me, seem to have much of an audience with the middle ground people.

BUT!!! Before the internet and the thousands of great knife contributors around the world I think this is an excellent point to make. It's is a good question though as it's rare to see, maybe a marketing exec in the blade world could chime in. Ask this in the Spderco forum, Sal is awesome enough to respond to several posts when he is not designing the next piece of my pay check.
 
H.E.

The acquisition of knowledge, or stuff as you put it, is how we progress as a species; knowledge is power. Even though there was no paper that came with fire, you must admit that acquiring the fire was beneficial to the human race. I could give a few other solid examples, but you get the idea.

I've noticed that the vast majority of questions on this forum are "how do I" post. Questions about sharpening or maintenance. People looking for information on how they can maintain their own knives. Many of the post are about proper sharpening angles, blade balance and use; Knowledge is power.

Its not my place to judge who is worthy of knowledge or who advances because of that knowledge.

I don't know if an executive of a knife company could add much to this discussion; I don't think they spend much time in the field. Sharing knowledge is not their first order of business.

Me personally I enjoy sharing knowledge, I believe in empowering people. Think about yourself for a moment; before you obtained your vast knife knowledge, you no doubt had no idea which end of the tool to hold in your hand. Through some channel you gained knowledge and today you don't cut yourself as often. Someone shared knowledge with you. Thats how humans progress.

Don't sell your fellow humans short, Facebook is not the mirror of humanity, knife users are a better cut, than indicated by the banal exchanges seen there.
I've been a teacher, in some form or other, for 50 years and I've never judged a new student or apprentice by what they thought they knew, it was always about what they wanted to know.


But!!! Not everyone gets their information on line; much of that information is suspect at best. Wouldn't it be nice if when someone purchased a new knife
it came with all the information that the person needed to get the very most out of their purchase.

Fred
 
The short answer is yes, I agree with Fred's premise. :thumbup:

I put that sort of info right in my sale threads, as do most handmade knifemakers. On custom stuff, all those details are worked out before I even start work on the knife... at least in broad terms, if not down to the third decimal place.

I seem to remember Buck knives coming with a little pamphlet explaining maintenance and sharpening back in the day, and I agree it's an excellent idea. One doesn't have to be a "knife knut" to benefit from that, any more than one has to be a master mechanic or programmer to benefit from the owner's manual that comes with a new car or computer.
 
Luckily for me most of my chef knives sort of came with instructions on proper bevel angles and which ones are suitable (more than 1 bevel angle can be used depending on what use), also they send it moderately dull (as it should be) because you set your own bevel.
 
HwangJino said:
Luckily for me most of my chef knives sort of came with instructions on proper bevel angles and which ones are suitable (more than 1 bevel angle can be used depending on what use), also they send it moderately dull (as it should be) because you set your own bevel.
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This is an excellent approach. The user understands at a glance the options open to him and gives him a starting point.

When I ship a knife it goes out with multiple degree wedges that can be used when setting the edge angle. Even though I ship with as sharp an edge as can be achieved for the bevels of the blade, I do want the new owner to understand there is not one edge that the knife will carry; it of course depends on use and work load.

Thanks for posting this, I'm not familiar with chef knives but find the approach used by this maker to be quite sound.

Fred
 
Fred.Rowe said:
The acquisition of knowledge, or stuff as you put it, is how we progress as a species; knowledge is power. Even though there was no paper that came with fire, you must admit that acquiring the fire was beneficial to the human race. I could give a few other solid examples, but you get the idea.
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This really doesn't fit in our conversation. You said my examples earlier were off topic, this is OT also. I still agree 100% with you.

I've noticed that the vast majority of questions on this forum are "how do I" post. Questions about sharpening or maintenance. People looking for information on how they can maintain their own knives. Many of the post are about proper sharpening angles, blade balance and use; Knowledge is power.
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The info you want, hardness, angle, bevel type would not answer many of the "how do I" posts. You don't want a slip with the basic specs, you want a book with everything. If it include uses on various materials, disassembly and repair diagrams, all the ways it could be sharpened... getting lengthy.

Its not my place to judge who is worthy of knowledge or who advances because of that knowledge.
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Hopefully, everyone is worthy of knowledge and can advance. Agree!

I don't know if an executive of a knife company could add much to this discussion; I don't think they spend much time in the field. Sharing knowledge is not their first order of business.
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You don't hang in the Spyderco forum. It's ok, but I can tell. Sal is upfront and honest about his company. These people you imagine aren't hording knowledge away from the poor consumer. Trust me, if they got calls and letters about the starvation, then papers would appear in boxes.

Me personally I enjoy sharing knowledge, I believe in empowering people. Think about yourself for a moment; before you obtained your vast knife knowledge, you no doubt had no idea which end of the tool to hold in your hand. Through some channel you gained knowledge and today you don't cut yourself as often. Someone shared knowledge with you. Thats how humans progress.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we disagree as you are saying what I am. Knowledge is good. I did do hours of research and reading about each knife I have. THIS IS ALL BEFORE THE BOX WITH THE PAPER ARRIVED. This paper you want is NOT supported by this paragraph. By the time this "fact sheet" arrives you already know EVERYTHING you originally said.

Don't sell your fellow humans short, Facebook is not the mirror of humanity, knife users are a better cut, than indicated by the banal exchanges seen there. I've been a teacher, in some form or other, for 50 years and I've never judged a new student or apprentice by what they thought they knew, it was always about what they wanted to know.
Click to expand...

Knife uses are better / I've never judged - You might not judge your students, but you do judge. Facebook is only as bad as your friends.
Congratulations on 50+ of teaching. I teach also. The fact we are not meshing now is probably because we are similar in ways. I feel you are doing real good, thanks!

But!!! Not everyone gets their information on line; much of that information is suspect at best. Wouldn't it be nice if when someone purchased a new knife it came with all the information that the person needed to get the very most out of their purchase.
Click to expand...

Not everyone but A LOT rely heavily on the internet. Most books that have ever been published are wrong in some way. Print offers no certainty. YES! It would be nice but so many things would be nice. Why post here where no knife makers / companies look? You said they don't listen or look here. Tell them directly.

This is my third attempt to persuade you to my viewpoint. It seems maybe we are somewhere in the middle. I think the paper is a nice idea, but don't miss it, and knowledge NEVER hurts. You seem to like using the internet to research, so why not just look the rest up there. Regardless, nice talking. Anymore and we might get flustered and look to be arguing like those babal facebook folk. Seriously though, it was nice debating. I really did try hard to see your point. I caught a good glimpse.
 
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