Writing Novel --- Need knife help

J

Judge_Blackhawk

Joined
Jun 9, 2000
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Okay, here is the deal. I have for most of my adult life soon to be forty-one (it looks better if I spell it out.... smile) carried a knife. However, and this is the big however, I have a bone disease called Osteo Genesis Imperfecta-Tarda (try saying that three times drunk). So with this disease I was able to learn how to skin a buck, run a trout line.... no wait that is a Hank, Jr. song. Well yes I was able to skin a buck, skin catfish (I am originally from Louisiana), and cut dang near anything but yet I don't know how to actually fight with a knife. I have seen movie fights and even seen a bar room knife fight.

But I don't know how to actually fight with a knife, other than taking the pointy end and sticking it in the other guy.... wait that was Mask of Zorro...:D

So, I need some real world experienced knife fighters (you don't have to have really killed anyone --- that would just be icing on the cake) so that I can pick their brains and get some instructions.

My Hero is a retired Marine, who worked as a cop and is now caught up in some nasty business with computers....

Any help would be much appreciated and who knows, if it is published you can get your name in the "This book was bot possible without the help of ----" section....;)

Thanks and God Bless,

Forever in Liberty and Justice,

Judge Blackhawk

P.S. my home email is texasjustice@goquest.com
 
get the book Cold Steel by John Styers, it can be gotten from the usual sources, amazon.com, barnes and noble.com, etc

Probably has info on how an old Marine may fight with a knife.
 
If the book is to be ralistic, make the knife fight look clumsy and sophomoric. You know, people tripping over furniture and beer and cigarette butts flying everywhere.

Remember that when two guys start to fight in a saloon, most of the patrons don't know the fight has started. They get in the way, and the entire fight has people justling around, like a big drunken stadium wave.

And don't overlook the fact that sometimes the combatants have a drink together, if not that night, then shortly during the week. And they laugh together about the fight.
 
You are gonna get a lot of chest-puffing BS here.
Having said that, my lame experience happend in 1992 in Atlantic City. My knife was deep in my pocket, since having one exposed would be asking for trouble in the Casino (Harrah's). Anyway, I got trouble when a really drunk patron mistook me for the guy his Ex ran off with (and he mistook my ex for his ex, who was there, and probably the cause for all this:rolleyes: ).
Anyway, this guy wanted revenge. He jumped me (us) outside the Casino with his Buck knock off. I got cut under my left nipple (not too deep), and on the outside of my right forearm (attempted block, probably deflected the slash to my torso which might have been deeper). My knife never left my pocket, no time. The only thing that saved me from worse injury was his blood alcohol level, and my steel-toed combat boots, which delivered a few good shots to his knees, and a good heel stomp to the chin once he was on the ground (not too hard considering his poor drunken balance). Not pretty, but that's it. Got the scars to prove it. My opinion is, if in a knife fight, you will probably get cut, I don't care how good you are.
BTW, I had several years experience in Okinawan karate, might have helped some.
 
Howdy,

The Styers suggestion was a good one(they all were). Until recently Marine Corps knife fighting would have looked like that(it was based on fencing techniques).

You might also check out the LINE system manuals, and the Fairbairn books. Depending on the age of your character, the hand to hand stuff would look like that. Www.gutterfighting.org and www.ejmas.com can help you out in that regard.

Most of the knife fights I've seen on video, and read/heard about were fast affairs. Think Bill Romonowski with a knife- lots of stabs/slashing coming from all angles. Lots of tackles, biting, and eye gouging, nothing too fancy.

THe fight scenes should'nt last too long, either. If you can't get the actual fight scene done in 1 1/2 - 2 pages, start editing.

Avoid getting wrapped up in descriptions of gear. While other gearheads appreciate it, it gets tedious for regular folks. If you can't describe a cat's knife, pistol, whatever in a couple of paragraphs, edit.
 
I second shootist16's recommendation of "Cold Steel" as an excellent starting point.

If you're trying to keep it realistic you should also keep in mind that most serious "fights" involving deadly force are really assaults from surprise. They rarely last for more than one or two strikes before someone either goes down or gets away.

--Bob Q
 
Originally posted by Judge_Blackhawk
My Hero is a retired Marine, who worked as a cop and is now caught up in some nasty business with computers....
Click to expand...
Does your hero use a blade as his primary weapon, (i.e. is he taking the offensive) or does he just find himself in a fight that happens to involve knives (a sequence in a kitchen for example)?
 
Years ago, maybe the 80s, I bought a springed knife that the Russians supposedly used in Afghanistan. The blade has a hollow, round and aluminum subhandle that slides into the main handle, while compressing a powerful spring. When you release the thumb lever, the blade shoots out fast enough to bury itself on inch or so into a stump. The subhandle stabizes it in flight, so it's a stick every time. For a while, the police were going to ban it because it could penetrate a bulletproof vest, but I don't know if they ever did. But in a novel, it is one fast way to win a knife fight without having to know much technique.
 
Check out the Styers book. Even if it doesn't fit the training that was used in the era of your hero's training, it still would make great reading.

I did a lot of sparring with rubber knives as a teenager and then made some special rubber sparring knives that I used in my twenties. I invited an ex-marine to try sparring with me. This was in about 1975 and he was a recent Vietnam vet. He was a very agressive fighter. He came in rather directly cutting and thrusting at my face and body. I was more controlled and had to back-pedal very fast, cutting at his knife arm and then neck. He used his off arm as a shield as he came in to attack, accepting cuts to that arm. As he explained it he had been trained to expect to get cut in a knife fight, and to go in and kill his opponent. He sacrificed his off arm and went in for the kill.

The big question is how do you end up in a knife fight (or any fight for that matter). Most dangerous attackers try and take you by surprise. The first move is likely to be a knife in the back or club on the head. How does a victim have time to pull a knife? I would expect the guy would need to evade and recover from an initial attack. For some reason the attack is continued. He pulls a knife and moves real fast. Take a look at the old Matt Helm spy novels by Donald Hamilton to see how an expert might use a modest lockblade to deadly advantage. He always used a handle-drop opening technique.
 
Judge,
Try fnding a book on the LINE fighting system. Marines learn this system as part of their basic training. The system includes barehanded, close quarter fighting and knife fighting. Hope this helps :)
 
Judge Blackhawk,

Congrats on undertaking the task of writing a novel! I know from experience that it is a long, lonesome, and sometimes expensive road.
I recently self-published my own little horror/thriller called Rebel Angels.

For anyone who might be interested, information on Rebel Angels can be found at www.jamesmichaelrice.com
 
I'll tell you what I've settled upon. If the supporting character is a regular person I will describe the protagonist as holding a "long, slender dagger" or a "silenced automatic". If the supporting character is LEO/military I might have them make a comment like "How did you get a pair of 93-Rs?" Same might hold true with other equipment. What one character mentally notes as "An old Mustang" another might stop and ponder "Is that a real GT350?". Good luck on the book.

Frank

P.S. I try to make the action short and sweet while keeping the dialogue in line with how people talk in real life.
 
Glad to see you're interested in getting your facts straight. I read a book the other day called "Neanderthal", by John Darnton, and it was pretty good except for one thing. One character (the sleazy guy, go figure) brings a gun along for the trip into the unexplored mtns that have potentially dangerous hominids living in them. Naturally the socially advanced other two scientists scoff. :rolleyes: Anyway, guess what caliber the revolver was?



Three-forty-five Magnum. :D

Back on topic, I saw a book a long time ago about realism for writers. Stuff like "you can't silence a revolver", etc - commonly made errors compiled into this book. Try googling some likely combinations, it was an interesting read. Good luck!

Ash
 
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