• The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
    Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
    Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.

  • Today marks the 24th anniversary of 9/11. I pray that this nation does not forget the loss of lives from this horrible event. Yesterday conservative commentator Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I worry about what is to come. Please love one another and your family in these trying times - Spark

WSS body?

Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
5,846
This isn't a post relating to the J Wiliams fitness challenge. It grew out of it a bit, but this is a more general topic- WSS fitness.

We can, though all classifications are somewhat arbitrary - classify some general areas of WSS needs:

skills
tools
attitude/psychology
fitness

Obviously, some of these are inter-related. Skills can have a huge effect on tools through an ability to make, improvise, or adapt tools. Tools can have a huge impact on skills- firestarting being a classic example. I can't go anywhere, anytime, and make a successful hand drill fire.

The psychological aspects are hugely impacted by skills, tools, and your body.

What I'm addressing here right now is the fitness aspect.

As some WSS members are aware of, J Williams started a fitness challenge in July, with a Gunny as a prize. As I recall, the idea for the challenge came from observing people in massively unhealthy states dealing with EMS needs.

Well, I took a look at myself and got religion.

I'm going to outline some of what I think of as basic parameters for fitness in a WSS context. This is a base, it's obviously going to change for people depending on skill level, task level, injury or health conditions. Modify as appropriate- Hushnel is a good example, if I may pull him in- he has several legacy injuries that prevent 'standard athlete' performance, but has gotten to a state where he can go on extended hunting hikes, which is fantastic- but he may not want to try stand-to-stand bridges!

The hardest part of planning this post is coming up with a quantification of fitness. There's strength (3 main types of that alone!), metabolism, work capacity, flexibility, the categorizations can go on endlessly.

So I'm just going to put my arse in the flame pot and lay some out.

Metabolism- a body that does stuff is going to have a metabolism that does stuff. This is going to have effects from curing depression to improved digestion to increased endurance and work capacity. Fortunately, metabolism mostly takes care of itself if the diet and exercise levels are right. Mostly- I am still supplementing iodine due to a slow thyroid, a congenital trait I've been aware of for years. It's become simply a part of my diet.


flexibility and work capacity will likewise take care of themselves if the right exercises are chosen. Basically, you want to be able to move without straining or stressing yourself, and you want to be able to move long enough to "gitrdone"

Diet-

This is where we hit some meat. Whether you want to end your 'food coma' states, lose weight, gain weight, or just clean up, similar diet choices rule.

(note that I'm not a doctor, I'm writing purely from personal expecrience and observation of people close to me who joined me in this project)

Some ground rules:

1: I'm not an anticarb nutcase, but I would consider empty carbs and sugars to be the current single largest health issue in the dis-United States and Canuckistan. Cutting all candy, soda, sweets, and flour based products from the diet is a pretty tall order at first, but I'd advise this for anyone and everyone. There are much healthier ways to get grains if you fel you need them, and with the exception of the social necessity of eating half of your small slice of MIL pumpkin pie, sweets fall into the same situation. Apples are pretty damned sweet when you haven't had any sugar for a month, lemme tell ya.

2: quantity! The American Dream is to get 5 times the food for half the price. Chill that out. There's a few ways to handle it. At the extreme end, you can portion control with extremely small dishes, pre-pack meals, and buy super small sized items from the grocery store- the cost may not end up as a higher net because you might end up eating half as much! There are other answers like the Warrior Diet and Eat-Stop-Eat systems where you 'mostly' fast throughout the day and have a CONTROLLED overeating phase for one evening meal. I've done that and it actually works out well if you don't have a nervous snack habit.

3: Quality- I found out, by way of my mother's extreme mold allergies, that there's some serious issues with pre packaged and processed foods. Too much to write down completely- it's more than mold spores, more than chemical bleeding. So I'll just lay out a flat piece of advice-

With few exceptions (I make my son spotted dick when we go camping)- avoid all, ALL, factory canned, jarred, prepackaged prepared foods.

Diet wise- his leaves you with needing to acquire a basic set of cooking skills, and a higher ratio of hunter-gatherer foods. At first, if you go this route, it can start to feel like all you eat is steak and salad, but it could be much worse :)


How diet works with exercise.

I've noticed that if I cheat and load up with a peanut butter sandwich, a tiny bowl of pasta, or even a small slice of birthday cake, I end up having some really silly grumpiness and get in purely dumb arguments with Koyote Girl, Apikoros, and Ms. Koyote. Unless- unless, it's a small, small dose of carb laden food within about 15 minutes of a sweat inducing exertion. Koyote Girl is a great example, we tried an actual experiment with her- one day she had a serving (4 ounces is a SERVING) of garlic mashed taters after sitting at the computer for a couple hours and, yep, moodiness ensued. We tried a half dozen other times (she LIKES taters) immediately after a 5 minute cycle of heavy kettlebell swings and no issues.

I think a focus on heavy processed carbohydrates and sugars is a bad idea in general- but a simple, easy takeaway from this is - KEEPING YOUR PORTION CONTROL- exercise before you eat. Always. Yes, that has meant me going out with friends and popping out to the parking lot for 3 quick sets of 15 pushups/20 hindu squats each.

Diet is a touchy subject, from the official wisdom that says you need to eat incredible amounts of grain products to the Atkins extreme. Everyone has a firm opinion based on complete conflicting research of interpretations of research.

So- briefly. I've lost 40 pounds, don't get lethargic, and feel much better. No processed grains (that includes flour), no canned/prepackaged foods (except home canning and pickling), no sugar, and lots of greens. (A George Foreman grill is a nice thing, too.)

Take from that what you will.

One aside- high density survival rations can be many things, but snacks isn't one of them. One of my other housemates has gained 45 pounds int he past year, and now is about 110 pounds over his 'basketball weight' - a few months ago he switched from 2 candy bars at work for a snack to 2 cliff bars. No positive effect. Why? cliff bars aren't made to fuel your body at a desk, dude. It's CANDY.




Exercise:

Okay, now we get to the fun stuff. Here's where I get to really talk WSS, minimalist skills, and independence!

Rescue Riley, when J Williams first started the workout challenge, mentioned his workout routine. There was a word in there I didn't recognize in context- swings. So I googled it and stumbled into the wonderful world of kettlebells. A heavy iron gym that fits in a backpack! dynamic, ballistic powerlifting! Heavy calisthenics and endurance conditioning! all using just a cannonball with a handle.

The exercises, with a very few gotchas- are the opposite of injury risks- they strengthen the joints and supporting muscles. Period. (the gotchas are all the same thing- good form on your back and hip movements. period. dot.)

This is close to as minimalist as you get with iron. It's probably the best thing I've ever tried for building work capacity, raw strength, and endurance strength. Explosive strength (the third type) is something you can choose to worry about or not, but it's going to go up with raw strength to nearly MMA competition level.

The basic suggestion I'd make form a WSS point of view would be to get either a book titled enter the kettlebell, the russian kettlebell challenge, or spend the dinero for a few weeks of training. Get a 16kg kettlebell (12 if you are a woman) and just go. you don't ever have to move up, since you can make the exercises harder. (But if you get the bug, you'll end up with at least a 24KG kettlebell.)

An example, my current primary twice weekly kettlebell practice is a 15 second work/rest cycle- 8 'snatches' (flinging the kettlebell from between my legs to a full one armed press lockout) in 15 seconds, 15 seconds of rest then repeat on the other side. each set counts as one, the goal is to get up to 80 sets. This is way harder than pushing some basic swings out! I'm at a comfortable working rate of 36, can push further, but I've got some other focus areas right now....

Which brings up pure minimalist fun- bodyweight. Go bodyweight! This is my main focus area right now, and I'm using a book called "the naked warrior" as a manual- but anything that works will work.

My thoughts on this are pretty simple- maximum strength comes from maximum MOMENTARY effort- that means getting past doing 50 pushups and 50 hindu squats (thoguh I still do both periodically) and getting to intensely difficult bodyweight exercises- planche pushups (one of my goals for 2010) one armed pushups, pullups, hanging leg raises, one legged squats.

This is, like, the WSS inedpendence holy grail. All you need in the
end is gravity, ground, and yourself. (a rope is nice for some things,
but not an absolute) And timing- is everything. The best part about
the Naked Warrior book next to the lack of gym fees is something
called "greasing the groove". The idea being to work out often- 3 to 6
times a day- with an effort level that makes you burn, but not
fatigue.


Possibly the best thing about bodyweight exercises is that there's some variation anyone, regardless of physical incapacity, can do. The next best thing is that the risks of major injury are very, very low compared to any other type of workout. Generally (within some pretty broad boundaries of reason) if you CAN do the move, it's safe in joint terms to do the move.


Oh yeah- run. Don't run if you are well over 20% body fat on the circumference test, it's not worth it. But run, walk, jog, move. There's simply nothing better for endurance than moving your whole body quickly for a mile and a half, or 5 miles- whatever floats your boat.

In survival terms, I'm not nearly good enough, but I've managed to pull out a 13 minute 1.5 mile run. that's 1:45 under the minimum standard for my age group in the Navy, which is pretty bitching since I couldn't do that at all in July. 1.5 miles isn't particularly far, but (and I gotta try this next time it's not raining) it should translate well to a fairly quick jog/walk cycled 5 mile extraction course. 3 miles from my house is wilderness, just to put it in practical terms......



Lots of posts like this end up with a basic advice statement: Do
Stuff.

In this case, Do Stuff Independently. The more independent you are in
food preparation, the better. The more independent you are in
exercise, the better.


If I was going to list a basic WSS fitness level goal (modify for physical needs)-

1.5 mile run or 500 yard wim in Navy PFT time for your age group.

25 pushups

at least 3 one arm pushups each side

25 hindu squats

2 one legged squats from butt on the ground, each side.

2 solid, real palms forward pullups

one hanging straight leg lift to shoulder height.


if you can do that, you can be reasonably confident that you can physically deal with a survival situation. :thumbup:

If you can't (and I'm still working on that damned hanging straight leg lift!) then you have a goal. once you reach the goal, start adding to it. :D
 
Koyote, it's kind of funny that you posted this, as just last night I was thinking about sending you a PM due to the progress I'd seen you make in the challenge:thumbup: Lots of good info in that post, thanks a ton!
 
Walter-

The best thing about Pavel's stuff in one respect is the 'do it every day' approach. It's much easier, I think, to stick to a daily training regime than to try for a classic 2 or 3 times a week one. You also get a lot more fat burning metabolics out of keeping the body going that way.

One thing I've done in the shop is something just set a timer and every hour done 5 heavy presses each side (that rapidly went from 16KG to 24KG). I'm ramping up for a serious bodyweight program that just got released and am off that right now, but still working the Grease the groove on one arm pushups, one legged squats, and pullups.
 
here are some good links for diet and exercise.


www.fitnesszone.co.za
www.exrx.net
http://www.indoorclimbing.com/Protein_Foods.html
http://www.dietaryfiberfood.com/
http://www.grapplearts.com/Vegan-diet-for-size.htm


some good books are Therapeutic exercise foundations and techniques Kisner and Colby exercise physiology Plowman and Smith, these are text books and if you don't read medical they may be a bit advanced.

the anatomy of strenght training and anatomy of yoga are also good, packed with good info.

I am going to take my fitness trainer cert next month and am a certified Physiotherapist assistant. These sites and books are use throughout the industry. Going for nutritionalist cert. in the new year

Vegan diet for combat sport excluded, I think it is a good site.


I know we all pride ourselves on self relliance but weight lose plans without proper guidance can be dangerous , and it is very worth while if you are looking at long term heathly changes in your life to seek out help from those that know.. This will help in getting a plan that is best suited for you,


Love the general jist of this post , get up and move people , eat right, play hard , love life......

cya
jimi
 
....
I know we all pride ourselves on self relliance but weight lose plans without proper guidance can be dangerous , and it is very worth while if you are looking at long term heathly changes in your life to seek out help from those that know.. This will help in getting a plan that is best suited for you,
....

Excellent links!

There's a bit of yes and no to my feelings about the quoted part- I can find certified nutritionists and doctors that will have 180 degree different views on diet- and a lot of it is based on knowledge of fairly arcane materials.

Like the 'famine level' of caloric intake- what that level is is actually apparently dependent on your fat levels, the more fat you carry, the lower you can drop your daily caloric intake without your body shutting down into the so called famine mode. (just an example, not meant to posit anything specific.)

I don't think anything I've done in my diet goes out of bounds for anyone omnivorous- and I've yet to hear an argument (aside from a fictional reference by a scifi author) that eatign processed foods is better for you :D

Probably the only thing I have in there that's at all off the wall is considering flours to count as 'overprocessed food'. But I live in a college town with crazy students who have nothing better to do than study the degredation rates of flours, and wheat is pretty bad, like acorn flour bad. Strange, given how much old flour gets used by people.

but- yeah- I've heard a few stories of people taking uneducated dieting to an extreme and getting less healthy as a result. And brekaing a metabolic barrier once you've gotten unfit can be a challenge that's greatly aided with some knowledgable help.
 
My goals are constantly changing, as are my workouts... It's the only way to keep motivated...Ive been working out regularly for 14 years, and did a few years as a personal trainer... so I change things up on the reg.. but I stick to key elements

in regards to resistance training always do:

some variation of a squat or lunge
some type of Pull (pull up chinup, row etc)
some type of push (pushup, bench press, dip)
some type of core excercise
and a multi joint complex excercise ( a kettle bell drill or a powerlift)

cardio I'm a little more lax on as I train intense circuit style with 30 second breaks

when I do cardio
it;s jump rope
distance run
or sprint intervals
 
There's a bit of yes and no to my feelings about the quoted part- I can find certified nutritionists and doctors that will have 180 degree different views on diet- and a lot of it is based on knowledge of fairly arcane materials.


not only for advise on fitness and nutritein simply because there is a million ways to skin a cat in that regard , but they may be able to find possible underlying heath issues, don't care how fit you are if you have a stroke or a heart attack on a tread mill,

also they can help with accurite charting of progress and add idea's to keep you entertained after the first three weeks.

Gym memberships are a great way to learn about fitnees and what to and not to do. if the kids are doingit I'm NOT

my workouts vary from full on metabolic training barbell/dumbell complexes to streching and floor work with a 8lbs medicine ball , and a wobble board.

I am not a big fan of rep and sets.... I am more to the school of time and total body, cardio and strength at the sametime
I only use heavy weight 2-3 times a week but I do ab work with the medicine ball and yoga on the off days + wobble board work

I have noticed a huge difference in my balance and spacial awarness in regards to my feet since I started to use the wobble board, or maybe just now I can see them ..... great for the calves,

next time you work out try doinf as many of your favortie exercise for 45 second straight, with good form..

for self weight try standing on all fours like push-up postion for aslong as you can , Isometrics are great if your willing to put in the time.

Once I get so dough I plan on grabbing a set of kettle bells I have seen alot of neat complex training with them. I have a set of 20 pound dumbells and I throw them around if I cant get to the gym .


goals are body weight workout with barbells , fifty pound weighted isometrics and four minutes on the mats full at it......3 rounds


keep at it
jimi
 
I am not a big fan of rep and sets.... I am more to the school of time and total body, cardio and strength at the sametime
I only use heavy weight 2-3 times a week but I do ab work with the medicine ball and yoga on the off days + wobble board work

Oh, nothing I do is even close to the standard reps for sets bodybuilding work. The VO2Max kettlebell work i'm doing is a heavy endurance calisthenic - 15 seconds snatches, 15 seconds rest, repeat until you die type stuff. I'm good for about 40 cycles right now, once I hit 80 then it's time to change to a heavier KB or a 36:36 protocol. But that's about as far as the reps thing goes.

Most of my work is in a format called "greasing the groove" - maximum tension and effort for a short (5 MAX) number of reps, alays fresh, never fatigued, multiple times a day. Mostly with that I'm working one armed pushups, hanging leg raises, pullups, and pistols.

That's pure strength work. Endurance and work capacity is the VO2Max snatches with the kettlebell twice weekly, twice weekly sing or press sets (set of 20 swings with 16KG or 4 presses each side with 24KG) with one round at the top of the minute for 5 minutes- not heavy enough to be strength training, much more work capacity. And twice weekly 1.5 mile runs.

I have noticed a huge difference in my balance and spacial awarness in regards to my feet since I started to use the wobble board, or maybe just now I can see them ..... great for the calves,

I love the off centered bodyweight exercises for that. balance and range of motion work is really core- good point.

next time you work out try doing as many of your favortie exercise for 45 second straight, with good form..

for self weight try standing on all fours like push-up postion for aslong as you can , Isometrics are great if your willing to put in the time.

I do some isometrics at phases of an exercise- if I'm doing an easier one armed pushup on a given day, say an 24 inch incline, I'll stop and sitck an iso lock at the bottom, halfway up, or just before lockout. Much harder to do with pistols, but I'll do it with hindu squats.

Once I get so dough I plan on grabbing a set of kettle bells I have seen alot of neat complex training with them. I have a set of 20 pound dumbells and I throw them around if I cant get to the gym .

Okay, don't want to be flagged for deal spotting, but-
lifeline fitness has the best balance of price/quality I've found in kettlebells. You only really need one 16kg bell to do most of the workouts, eventually most people end up with pairs of 16 and 24 and a couple random 4 or 8kg bells for stacking.

So, you can get in really cheap with just a single bell.

If the KB bug bites you once you are done with your current certs, you might even look into RKC certification and Zhealth (the Z health R phase sounds right up your alley!)
 
Last edited:
P90X and Body for Life are the two best things I've done for my health in the past year. Both emphasize a combination of cardio and strength training paired with diet. If you're in reasonably good shape and looking for a place to go I'd recommend both programs. I feel much better prepared hiking in the mountains here now than I did at this time last year after completing a few rounds of each.
 
OK, I went back to the gym today. It's been about 2, maybe 3, weeks since I've worked out. (Been working 7 days a week and time has been precious short.) Man, oh man, did my conditioning fall off. I can't believe the difference, e.g. pull-ups dropped from 12 rep sets to 7. So a word of warning as we head into the holidays: keep up with the routines lest you be set back in the new year.

For me: better diet, less alcohol, more consistency in the gym, more sleep. Happy holidays!
 
and bodyweight! I have been doing the one legged squat progressions, one armed pushups progressions- great for keeping going when you don't have gear.
 
Nice post Koyote. I would just add a few things:

Much of this is a lifestyle change, rather than simply a diet change, but is managed by STARTING the change, and then continuing one step at a time.

Eating healthy is EASIER when you are using natural, unprocessed foods. You will get more variety, more nutrients, and the foods you will eat will work in conjunction with your body, requiring less math and figuring in your diet.

With much working out, less is more. This does not hold so true with bodyweight exercises, but with weights. Less days, less reps, less sets, because the limiting factor is your nervous system, rather than your muscles. I am not saying don't work out, just that 14 sets per bodypart, 4 days per week, are not required, or even beneficial for most of the population. You can make good progress with 2 sessions a week that last for about an hour with the proper program. That means that working out isn't necessarily committing huge chunks of time to something that you could never continue doing.

I appreciate your posts on health and food, because they are often so overlooked in the WSS context, but still one of the most important topics.
 
Christof,

I'd like to add being able to do several dead hang pull ups with palms in and out. I've had to use this type of strength, not so much in the wild, but climbing through small holes in ceilings and jumping up and climbing into roof trusses, etc.

I used to be a pull up stud, but 11 years of no pull ups killed than. Right now, I'm at 6 palms out and 7 palms in. I think that's probably plenty for what one might need, but I'd like it to be better.
 
I'm stepping up this next year and plan to shed some pounds. The info is in the ticker, which I've put here as part of my signature. I've been hovering around 215 for a while, and I need to make some changes and get back down to a healthy weight for me, which should be somewhere between 180 and 185.
 
What are the better (best?) online sources for kettlebells and kettlebell training info?

AJ
 
Christof. After I read your post on the 12th, I bought The Naked Warrior and Enter the Kettlebell plus a 16kg KEB. It was done on total impulse (Just like my knife/gear purchases) after reading your post. I've been doing it for about a week and "TA-DA", I did my first ever one handed push up. The squat pistols are more difficult. I have a bum right knee and it's pretty weak after favouring it for so long. But I'm getting there.
Thanks for introducing me to it.
 
Just run baby, run, eat salads, veggies with a little meat and stay away from the desserts, breads and manufactured garbage. I know I got lazy after an injury, I went from local strongman competitor to fat ass in 7 months flat. There is no trick we just gotta put in the work.
 
What are the better (best?) online sources for kettlebells and kettlebell training info?

AJ

dragondoor.com has forums, youtube has a million and a half videos- it's mostly a matter there of looking at things and finding stuff that looks solid.

in a broader self-education sense, begin2dig.com is a blog site by one of my friends who is an absolute nutcase/genius- she does kettlebells and will reference other sites, videos, books, etc if you start digging. (warning, She's a postdoctoral sort of strength and fitness researcher with a focus on geeks. You'll either find it incomprehensible or lose work hours to her posts)
 
Back
Top