WW3 Blade Finish

Blackdog

Blackdog

Joined
Apr 27, 1999
Messages
620
Craig,

As requested, a new thread to discuss the blade finish on the WW3.

I would like to have my WW3 with a deep, gun blued finish. It has a touch of class about it.

I have several old guns dating from the late 1800's. They all have a blued finish. These weren't "wall hangers". They were, and are, hunting guns. They were well cared for but have seen serious field use in their lifetimes. After a hundred years of use, they show signs of wear and tear but the blued finish has allowed them to age gracefully.

On the other side of the coin, I have several knives with the black or gray colored "state of the art" finishes. They may be more resistant to the elements than the old bluing, but once they were used heavily they looked like s**t.

This is a joint project that's been put together from the ideas of a very special group of people. The first 25 of these knives should be totally different than anything else that exists today. I believe a good bluing job will help accomplish that.

My 2 cents.

Blackdog

------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC



[This message has been edited by Blackdog (edited 25 September 1999).]
 
I completely agree on the aesthetic superiority of nineteenth century charcoal bluing over twentieth century finishes. My concern is over its suitability for a working knife. My understanding (which is derived from my bottomless well of ignorance and subject to revision from anyone with actual knowledge of the subject)is that the old fireblue is obtained by heating the steel until it turns color and then rapidly cooling it, whereas modern finishes result from chemical reactions between bluing compounds and the polished steel. Can a heat blue finish be applied to a differentially tempered blade without destroying the temper?
Berk
 
Berkley,

I think modern guns are blued using heated bluing chemicals. The guns are dipped or soaked in tanks at controlled temperatures. I doubt if there is any effect on the tempering of the steel. If you look at an older Colt Python or a nice Weatherby rifle you'll get an idea of what type of deep blue finish I was referring to for the WW3.

I believe the heating process you described earlier was called "Case Hardening". Then again, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. My knowledge of metal finishing is only a point or two above the second grade level.

Blackdog

------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC

 
A deep blue would have more style IMHO. With a little care, the Bluing should hold up ok, and minor scratches could always be touched up with cold bluing. That being said, I would not recommend the use of cold bluing for the initial coat. Guns are indeed blued in a heated chemical solution, and the tempreature shouldn't even be close to destroying the temper of the knife.

p1445

Craig, I guess you better include me on the WWIII list, if there are any left. I was going to hold out for the WWIII Deluxe, but it sounds like it will be a while before you are ready to tackle that project.

[This message has been edited by p1445 (edited 26 September 1999).]
 
i'm all for the bluing as well. i've seen
enough parkarized/telfon coated blades that
look like crapola after a couple of uses
that it's just not funny.
a good bluing will last a lifetime and is
relatively easy to touch up.
just my two cents.
(i'm new here by the way!)
-matt
 
I consulted a some experts on blueing. The collective opinon is that most bluing is done at 300F, which is not enough to do harm to the temper. In fact, it will relief stress in bad blades. All in all, a win-win scenario.
 
I got out my Brownells gunsmith catalog, and cheched out their bluing section. Nitre bluing, according to Brownells, is usually done at around 600*. Too bad, as nitre blue is a very fine finish. They also offer two more hot blues, Oxynate no. 7, and Dicropan "IM". Both of these bluing methods are done at around 300*.

p1445
 
P1445: Can you send me a copy of that catalog? Frankly, I figured that the finishing process would be the easiest part of the equation, and have saved it for last. For blackdog, tallwinged, Berkely and others: I had thought of bluing all along, because of the durability issue brought up earlier. And of course, my personal WWIII (number 26) will be blued with white micarta ivory-like handles - sort of like a ganster-from-the-20s Colt 45.

------------------
Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Craig,

If you see some of the old pictures of General George Patton, you'll notice his favorite sidearms (a .45 Long Colt and a S&W .357 Mag) were fitted with ivory grips.

Seems to me you're in good company when it comes to preference of grip styles.

Blackdog

------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC

 
Thanks to all who responded to my concern about blueing temperatures - that's been nagging at the back of my mind, and I'm glad to learn my worries were groundless. Now I'm _really_ excited. The sheath design looks great, the blades are on order, all systems are go - is it Christmas yet?
smile.gif

Berk
(I'm Number One!)
 
mdavis / matt,

Speaking for myself and, I am certain, the other forumites I bid you welcome to the land of Khukuris and our humble abode.

I see you have ordered a WW3. This in itself testifies to your superior intellect and good taste.

I'd say more, but spelling all those big words is making my head hurt.
smile.gif
smile.gif


Welcome

Blackdog

------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC

 
Craig,
I would love to send you my Brownells catalog, but I need it in case I need replacement parts for my IPSC gun. Sorry. Their phone number is 515-623-5401. They charge $5.00 for the catalog, but will refund it on your first order. They will send you a free catalog if you are a gunsmith or a knife maker, which you are. If you have a gun you should have this catalog, they have everything. The catalog doesn't go into a lot of detail, but if you tell them you are a knife manufacturer and want details about setting up a bluing operation, I'm sure they will send you all kinds of information. Their web site is www.brownells.com.

They used to have tech support, you might give them a call and see if they won't give you details on the various bluing methods.

p1445

[This message has been edited by p1445 (edited 26 September 1999).]

Craig,
I think I gave you the wrong idea, brownells is a parts catalog. they will sell you anything you need to do the bluing, but they don't do any work. I hope this helps.

p1445

[This message has been edited by p1445 (edited 26 September 1999).]
 
I agree,a nice hot blue should be just the ticket. At first I was hoping for a high tech coating of some kind but the ease of touching up bluing is hard to beat. BTW I also find the Brownells catalog to be a must have for anyone who has guns or knives. There`s some really neat stuff in there that`s hard to find elsewhere. Marcus
 
thanx for the welcome
Blackdog,
the land of khurkuris is a great one.
i purchased a bhojpure from GH just a
couple of weeks ago and love it.
i am in high anticipation of the WW III.
i have no doubts that the wait will be
worth it.

- matt
ps all words are big words!
wink.gif
 
Craig,

I just got off the phone with my gunsmith buddy, and he confirmed that hot bluing is done at around 300* ( he thought 330*, but didn't have the numbers in front of him at the time.). He sends all of his bluing out to Checkmate(352-799-5774). I have seen their work, and it is very good. He said that the major cost in bluing is in the surface preperation. He seems to think that if the knives come pre-polished that the cost won't be to great. You might want to give them a call to get a price quote.

p1445
 
P1445: Thanks for the info. I'll be on the phone with both parties tomorrow morning. I think I want to do the bluing myself, as I think it'll be a valuable option I can offer on the standard khukuris in the future (that is, if the equipment costs aren't too high).

Oh, I'm so very excited. It feels like Christmas. Melakalikimaka!

------------------
Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Melakalikimaka

Craig,

I couldn't have said it (or spelled it) better myself, 'cause I don't have a clue what it means. But I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.

Blackdog

------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC

 
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