XM 18 problem ?

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rprocter

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a few months ago i ordered a Hinderer XM 18 from a well known online retailer of fine custom knives. he just emailed me to say the knife had arrived and: "i just checked the knife and the pivot pin has had loctite put on it. As such i cannot tighten it any further. I'm afraid Canadian customs if they open it will claim it is a gravity knife"
what is up here ?
Rick Hinderer's website goes to some detail explaining that the pivot pin is of his own design and making on "a new state of the art CNC turning center"; and "this system makes an incredibly strong pivot that is easy to adjust in the field"
can owners of xm 18's help explain to me what might be going on here.
i think a $400 knife should be perfect, not held together by glue. or am i just totally misunderstanding the situation ?
 
bad title for this thread. this is not a problem with the knife by any stretch. it is loctite, it keeps the pivot from moving once Rick has set the pivot tension to the optimal setting. I am sure rick had no way of knowing that knife was going to Canada. The knife is not held together by glue, that is just a ridiculous statement. All the dealer had to do is heat the pivot a little to break the loctite and then tighten the pivot for you. this is not something that deserves freaking out over. most makers I know of use loctite on their knives.
 
I agree. A lot of makers use loctite and recommend its use if you are going to change pivot tension after you get it. The bond can be broken just by giving the pivot a fairly good twist if it's the blue kind of loctite which most use. The red loctite is supposed to be semi-permanent and requires you to heat it up quite a bit before it'll give. I'm guessing that since the XM18's pivot looks to be adjusted with a standard screwdriver, the dealer didn't want to risk marring or deforming the pivot only to have you return it.
 
Rick has stated that a few of the original XM-18s accidentally got out with green locktite on them (the permanent kind). But none of the newer ones have had that problem. Maybe an older one?
 
i do not understand. the Sebenza instructions tell you to NOT use loctite on the pivot when re assembling, as then you cannot adjust the tension. if the knife is machined to proper tolerances, why is loctite needed ? plus, it defeats the ability to "easily adjust in the field", as explained by Rick H.
i am not freaking out. the dealer thinks something is not right which is why he notified me before sending it out. it falls open when held upsidedown, hence could be mistaken for a "gravity knife". does yours do that ?
 
The only XM-18 problem I have had is not being able to find one!!! I need a lefty darn it!!!!

Seriously, loctite seals can be broken with a slight bit of heat. i.e. touching the pin with a soldering iron (briefly).
 
pivot screws loosen no matter how good the tolerance, especially pivot screws where you do not want it so tight you can not open the knife. loctite is your friend, it has nothing to do with tolerances. the xm-18 is among the best built knives out there. also I am sure the knife new from Rick would not just fall open when held updisedown. I just dont see him letting a knife with a bad detent leaving his shop.
 
i put a " ? " in my title because i did not know if this is a problem or not. i am an average "joe" who likes and collects knives. i am not a knife builder, so i have to ask, and especially before i lay out over $550 cdn., i want to know that the knife is perfect. where i live there is no possible way to get to a knife dealer's place and see for myself.
so the follow up is : i have asked the dealer to contact Rick and ask for advice. and i especially in no way wish to offend Rick Hinderer. he is one of a select few in which every single post in these forums is 100% positive about both the person and his work.
 
Purple Loctite 222. Light duty for screws. Repositionable.
Blue Loctite 242. Medium duty for 1/4" to 1/2" bolts. Non permanent. Removable.
Red Loctite 271. Heavy duty for 3/8" to 1" bolts. Permanent, requires heat
Red Loctite 277. Super duty for 1" and larger. Permanent, require heat
Green Loctite 290. Applied after assembly. Removable.

I use loctite on my screws for clip retaining, but that is all.

mike
 
Hello rprocter, First thanks for considering my XM-18 and you are not offending me at all..to answer your questions and aleviate your concerns. I am not sure what this dealer is having problems with in adjusting the pivot down tight.even with the blue locktite that I use it is very easy...just take a screwdriver and tighten it. i have shipped knives to canada and i know about tightening the pivot down tight..he will not have any problem doing this. as for the blade just falling out of the handle when turned upside down...no gravity alone will not cause this..the detent holds it...flicking your wrist yes,but not just falling out...to date I have not had any dealer contact me regarding this?..

as you see with the other posts that locktite is not a problem. I make my own pivots on my own cnc lathes..so I am able to keep track of the tollerances...I make my pivots with the straight screw slot so that you can easily adjust them in the field with even a coin if you have to...

and there isnt a drop of glue anywhere on the knife:)

Thanks again and I hope I helped.

Rick Hinderer
 
rproctor, I think you were right to ask. I'm also sure Rick will figure out what's with the knife, and fix it before it goes to you -- after all, your dealer had the sense to tell you about it, rather than to send a knife out that didn't seem right.

Loctite doesn't hold the knife together -- it's a good way of holding a pivot at a particular tension, like a set screw would. The knife doesn't need it to functionl, but whatever tension you set could loosen over time, requiring you to retighten it.

I'm not familiar with the construction of the XM-18, but the Sebenza doesn't use loctite because Chris Reeve designed it with a pivot bushing, which is a tube that the pivot pin goes through, setting the space between handle slabs that way. This makes the blade tension uniform on all Sebenzas.

Edit: Ha! The man beat me to it! :)
 
Well, special thanks to Rick H. and Esav B. the "falling open" part was MY misunderstanding of the dealer's words "gravity knife". he also said "someone put loctite on it", which made me wonder as i thought (correctly, i believe) that Mr. Hinderer worked alone. as he was "unable" to tighten it down, i wondered further.
i feel reassured and will certainly be a proud owner of this knife (orange scales because i plan to carry it every day, which means using it on most, and i have lost knives in the past, even though i thought i was being careful.
i also feel a little humbled; it's quite a body of knowledge to fully understand the construction and workings of knives, especially with so many patterns and variations. i am grateful because i learn everytime i log on to this site (daily). thanks, rolando the humbled.
 
The problem is you live in Canada, and Canadian customs will _try_ and get you knife to fail inspection. Hence tightening of the pivot to make sure it not confiscated.
 
right now i am waiting for 20 knives, all separate ebay transactions with US sellers. most are older inexpensive knives of interest only to a collector, and all totally legal (mostly traditional folders). most of these "should" have been here by now. time will tell, but i do not trust Canada Customs; my fear is that some employees may have "sticky fingers". but if you are Canadian, you have to play this roulette, as there are very few knives for sale by other Canadians . a little off topic, but a huge worry with a knife as attractive and expensive as an XM 18.
 
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