- Joined
- Oct 17, 2010
- Messages
- 2,424
Hi guys. Having recently acquired a new Tirtha YCS, I wanted to give it a chance to face of against one of the great old originals.
Some of you know that I've got an excellent piece by Sanu, probably not from the original sign up, but very near after that, sometime in the early 2000's, since the original sign up was in late 2000.
By Uncle-Bills own account, only Bura and Sanu made the YCS's to a standard he was consistently happy with back then, which I think explains the big gaps in time you'll see between YCS runs if you wade through all the old archives. Many people seem to think the original offering was back in the mid-2000's, but I"m pretty sure that was the second big run, when a lot of chiruwa inlayed models were made.
Mine as you'll see, is a less fancy model without the tools or the YCS kardas, and has found its home in a gorgeous Sarki Terry Sisko scabbard before I got it.
I originally bought the Tirtha YCS as a user, since I've been burning to use the Sanu, but couldn't bring myself to use such an exquisite piece. However, after using the Tirtha, and taking all the pics I'm posting here, I got hammered the other night, and couldn't resist the urge, and ended up putting the Sanu to the usage test. Something I both deeply enjoyed, yet still regret, since it was in my opinion, the crown jewel of my limited collection. It'll now be my primary user.
Lets get to the pics, and I'll get more in depth:
Firstly, it's probably not fair to compare the scabbards on these two, but I have to say that I'm very happy with the red scabbard on the Tirtha YCS, the leather has a beautiful grain, and looks great, although I'm considering removing the cap, since I feel it takes away from the scabbard in this case. On a black traditional model, I like the authenticity, but a less than perfect fit really takes away from the luxury of the red leather. The kardas and awl also don't fit that well, and I've got to really cram them in to keep them from falling. Still, both beautiful khukris in beautiful packaging.
Next, both blades in un-touched (mostly) beauty. Tirtha's at the top, and Sanu's at the bottom. Already there are obvious and striking differences, but Tirtha definitely nails the "spirit" of the YCS. The variations are in the details.
The thing that really sets Sanu's work apart from Tirtha's though, is the fuller work. Not to disparage Tirtha, and I'm sure this is why U.B. preferred Sanu and Bura for YCSes in the first place, but nobody could do fullers like these two old masters. The fullers are intense, and unlike Bura's perfectly symmetrical ripples in a pond, Sanu's fuller's have the hard peaks of deep ocean waves in torment. They're beautiful, and almost violent. By comparison, Tirthas, are long and shallow. Very consistent, but reserved. Obviously Tirtha knows how to get very smooth and uniform depressions, but perhaps he isn't confident yet enough with them to push the limits like Sanu seems to have. I'm excited to see how his work progresses.
These pics are hard to capture accurately, but the first 3 are Sanu:
Now 3 from Tirtha's YCS: (note: the scratches on the fullers seen in the 3rd pic are how it came, I'll get more into the inconsistencies of the F&F on this one later)
More so than the other variables, the fullers really are the core of what separate these two YCSes. Further photos will explain how it translates into final blade geometry. Sanu's deep fullers, provide for a much thicker spine and more robust edge geometry than Tirtha's work, which ultimately showed itself in field work. However, for nearly equal weight, Tirtha's piece is nearly 1" longer, being nearly 18", while the Sanu is only 17" OAL.
Here's you can see the difference in length, Sanu on the right:
But here you can see the difference in the spine profile, and in the 2nd photo, the extreme difference toward the tip, which bear in mind, directly reflects the intersection of fuller to edge and grind:
In the realm of fit and finish, I'm a little disappointed with the Tirtha piece, although I'm not sure any of it is actually Tirtha Kami's fault. This piece really appears to have started out as a villager F&F, but then got a half-hearted polish up at the end. Original pictures didn't show this, but there are alot of minor flaws, which don't show up on the Sanu piece even considering how old it is and having been through a few hands.
The handle work is really rough, the worst I've gotten new or old. There are big flat spots, honestly it feels like it was just rough carved and then buffed. You can even see the blems with the naked eye. Here's a photo:
And another:
There are also a couple of chips in the ring. The same rough shaping appears in the karda's also, and the awl's handle is not even the same variety of wood.
Secondly, two different metals were used in the bolster, and the buttcap. The description listed "white metal", which I'm not sure refers to the "silver" metal or the stainless metal, but the bolster on this one is the same as the "silver" metal used on my Garud, and the same as the bolster and butt-cap of my M-43. It's white, with a bit of a bronze/gold tinge (like silver), not chrome at all. The butt-cap on the other hand, is what I've come to thing of as "stainless" metal, that buffs up to a bright chrome polish. I've got an older M-43i with this metal, and the difference is obvious. The scabbard cap appears to be silver also, so the butt-cap shows in bright contrast to the other pieces.
The buffing process on the blade was inconsistent also, and as you saw in previous photos, left some places scratched. It also seemed to pretty heavily anneal the edge, since lightly using it on a soft pine 2x4 left the edges pretty rolled. Heavier use in fallen pine eventually left a pretty major bend, about 3/4" long by 1/2" deep, that I had to hammer back out. By comparison, the Sanu piece showed no deformation at all, even though it was hair-splitting sharp when I got it, and only barely chipped out when I accidentally hit a galvanized welded wire fence.
However, the bolster work on the Tirtha piece is nearly flawless, the weld line is nearly invisible, as opposed to being smooth but very apparent on Sanu's piece.
So, the verdict? Tirtha is on the right track, and definitely seems to show some intense promise by executing what is likely one of the toughest designs to make, keeping to the spirit of the original. I'd like to see him get more aggressive with his fullering, and the F&F on this particular piece is really an insult to the overall package. To be honest I almost sent it back. However, it makes me very happy to see the YCS'es coming back, and more importantly, to see lighter and thinner stick tang versions coming back into style as opposed to only seeing the overbuilt chiruwa tanks, that were our only options for a while. Ultimately, it's good work vs masterful work, and Tirtha has a long way to go before I could rank it with the likes of Bura, Sanu, Durba, Kumar, etc, but he's on the right path. If he made a commitment to attention to detail even beyond his initial work, making sure even the Sarki, etc. jobs were perfect, then I could see him being the next Bura, where I see Rajkumar being a strange cross of artisanship like Kumar, but being massively built like Sher (the Tiger), or some of that old Jag & Prem insanity I've noticed.
In the end, it's not really a fair contest, Sanu was undoubtedly (to my mind), one of, if not the best HI kami ever. In fact, as much as we newer HI fanatics hear about Bura keeping everyone in the shop in check, U.B. made mention in older threads about Bura getting lazy if Sanu wasn't there to keep him in check. So it will be very interesting to see what effects Bura can have on things if he is indeed getting back into supervising the shop, since eventually he became known so well for his unwavering eye for detail. I think Tirtha Kami could end up the same way with some direction.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, all the long-windedness, and pontifications. Cheers!
Some of you know that I've got an excellent piece by Sanu, probably not from the original sign up, but very near after that, sometime in the early 2000's, since the original sign up was in late 2000.
By Uncle-Bills own account, only Bura and Sanu made the YCS's to a standard he was consistently happy with back then, which I think explains the big gaps in time you'll see between YCS runs if you wade through all the old archives. Many people seem to think the original offering was back in the mid-2000's, but I"m pretty sure that was the second big run, when a lot of chiruwa inlayed models were made.
Mine as you'll see, is a less fancy model without the tools or the YCS kardas, and has found its home in a gorgeous Sarki Terry Sisko scabbard before I got it.
I originally bought the Tirtha YCS as a user, since I've been burning to use the Sanu, but couldn't bring myself to use such an exquisite piece. However, after using the Tirtha, and taking all the pics I'm posting here, I got hammered the other night, and couldn't resist the urge, and ended up putting the Sanu to the usage test. Something I both deeply enjoyed, yet still regret, since it was in my opinion, the crown jewel of my limited collection. It'll now be my primary user.
Lets get to the pics, and I'll get more in depth:
Firstly, it's probably not fair to compare the scabbards on these two, but I have to say that I'm very happy with the red scabbard on the Tirtha YCS, the leather has a beautiful grain, and looks great, although I'm considering removing the cap, since I feel it takes away from the scabbard in this case. On a black traditional model, I like the authenticity, but a less than perfect fit really takes away from the luxury of the red leather. The kardas and awl also don't fit that well, and I've got to really cram them in to keep them from falling. Still, both beautiful khukris in beautiful packaging.
Next, both blades in un-touched (mostly) beauty. Tirtha's at the top, and Sanu's at the bottom. Already there are obvious and striking differences, but Tirtha definitely nails the "spirit" of the YCS. The variations are in the details.
The thing that really sets Sanu's work apart from Tirtha's though, is the fuller work. Not to disparage Tirtha, and I'm sure this is why U.B. preferred Sanu and Bura for YCSes in the first place, but nobody could do fullers like these two old masters. The fullers are intense, and unlike Bura's perfectly symmetrical ripples in a pond, Sanu's fuller's have the hard peaks of deep ocean waves in torment. They're beautiful, and almost violent. By comparison, Tirthas, are long and shallow. Very consistent, but reserved. Obviously Tirtha knows how to get very smooth and uniform depressions, but perhaps he isn't confident yet enough with them to push the limits like Sanu seems to have. I'm excited to see how his work progresses.
These pics are hard to capture accurately, but the first 3 are Sanu:
Now 3 from Tirtha's YCS: (note: the scratches on the fullers seen in the 3rd pic are how it came, I'll get more into the inconsistencies of the F&F on this one later)
More so than the other variables, the fullers really are the core of what separate these two YCSes. Further photos will explain how it translates into final blade geometry. Sanu's deep fullers, provide for a much thicker spine and more robust edge geometry than Tirtha's work, which ultimately showed itself in field work. However, for nearly equal weight, Tirtha's piece is nearly 1" longer, being nearly 18", while the Sanu is only 17" OAL.
Here's you can see the difference in length, Sanu on the right:
But here you can see the difference in the spine profile, and in the 2nd photo, the extreme difference toward the tip, which bear in mind, directly reflects the intersection of fuller to edge and grind:
In the realm of fit and finish, I'm a little disappointed with the Tirtha piece, although I'm not sure any of it is actually Tirtha Kami's fault. This piece really appears to have started out as a villager F&F, but then got a half-hearted polish up at the end. Original pictures didn't show this, but there are alot of minor flaws, which don't show up on the Sanu piece even considering how old it is and having been through a few hands.
The handle work is really rough, the worst I've gotten new or old. There are big flat spots, honestly it feels like it was just rough carved and then buffed. You can even see the blems with the naked eye. Here's a photo:
And another:
There are also a couple of chips in the ring. The same rough shaping appears in the karda's also, and the awl's handle is not even the same variety of wood.
Secondly, two different metals were used in the bolster, and the buttcap. The description listed "white metal", which I'm not sure refers to the "silver" metal or the stainless metal, but the bolster on this one is the same as the "silver" metal used on my Garud, and the same as the bolster and butt-cap of my M-43. It's white, with a bit of a bronze/gold tinge (like silver), not chrome at all. The butt-cap on the other hand, is what I've come to thing of as "stainless" metal, that buffs up to a bright chrome polish. I've got an older M-43i with this metal, and the difference is obvious. The scabbard cap appears to be silver also, so the butt-cap shows in bright contrast to the other pieces.
The buffing process on the blade was inconsistent also, and as you saw in previous photos, left some places scratched. It also seemed to pretty heavily anneal the edge, since lightly using it on a soft pine 2x4 left the edges pretty rolled. Heavier use in fallen pine eventually left a pretty major bend, about 3/4" long by 1/2" deep, that I had to hammer back out. By comparison, the Sanu piece showed no deformation at all, even though it was hair-splitting sharp when I got it, and only barely chipped out when I accidentally hit a galvanized welded wire fence.
However, the bolster work on the Tirtha piece is nearly flawless, the weld line is nearly invisible, as opposed to being smooth but very apparent on Sanu's piece.
So, the verdict? Tirtha is on the right track, and definitely seems to show some intense promise by executing what is likely one of the toughest designs to make, keeping to the spirit of the original. I'd like to see him get more aggressive with his fullering, and the F&F on this particular piece is really an insult to the overall package. To be honest I almost sent it back. However, it makes me very happy to see the YCS'es coming back, and more importantly, to see lighter and thinner stick tang versions coming back into style as opposed to only seeing the overbuilt chiruwa tanks, that were our only options for a while. Ultimately, it's good work vs masterful work, and Tirtha has a long way to go before I could rank it with the likes of Bura, Sanu, Durba, Kumar, etc, but he's on the right path. If he made a commitment to attention to detail even beyond his initial work, making sure even the Sarki, etc. jobs were perfect, then I could see him being the next Bura, where I see Rajkumar being a strange cross of artisanship like Kumar, but being massively built like Sher (the Tiger), or some of that old Jag & Prem insanity I've noticed.
In the end, it's not really a fair contest, Sanu was undoubtedly (to my mind), one of, if not the best HI kami ever. In fact, as much as we newer HI fanatics hear about Bura keeping everyone in the shop in check, U.B. made mention in older threads about Bura getting lazy if Sanu wasn't there to keep him in check. So it will be very interesting to see what effects Bura can have on things if he is indeed getting back into supervising the shop, since eventually he became known so well for his unwavering eye for detail. I think Tirtha Kami could end up the same way with some direction.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, all the long-windedness, and pontifications. Cheers!
