Yes, yet another grinder thread ...

N

nailcreek

Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
76
After looking through more than a few posts here, talking with quite a few makers, I've narrowed the list down to KMG-TX, TW-90, Wilmont, Reeder or Northridge.

The TW-90 only has one tool arm slot, 1.25" arms and tracking adjustmentat the motor, which seems to make it an outlier in the market, which seems pointed towards 1.5" and multiple slots. The build quality is consistently described as outstanding - and a solid value. Do the apparent downsides cancel out the positive?

The KMG-TX seems to have all the features I'm looking for, but ... some have stated that their quality is questionable (build precision, bearings, wheels).

Reeder and Wilmont are both solid, great reviews and features - but spring tension - and many have stated that ratcheting is really a gotta-have on a grinder. Finally, Northridge was my hands down first choice, but very sadly they've gotten out of the grinder business.

So ... thoughts from the esteemed members of this board?
 
The Reeder and Contender are both aluminum and I'd be interested in a comparison between the two. For someone buying their first grinder, it may be difficult to see advantages and disadvantages of each machine from the websites. Reeder has a lot more accessories available, but I assume that these would fit either grinder.
 
I've posted this ask a couple other places ... and the answers are pretty interesting. People are obviously partial to the grinders in their shop, and at the price point I'm at, you can't really end up with junk. The TW-90 is mentioned more than once as a benchmark machine with Northridge getting out (very sadly) of the business.

Ameribrade and Brodbeck have their supporters due to the cost and packages offered. I'm looking to start simple and buy up stuff when needed. My starting package would be a flat platen, articulated work rest, small wheel setup, 10" contact wheel.

I'm really interested in build quality - precision alignment, quality build and assembly and industrial grade components. Buy once, kind of thing.
 
I purposely picked my grinder Because it has a spring for tensioning. I want the spring versions. Those piston cylinder ones will fail more frequently. And Idk how well they will work with the fine grinding dust.

I've never bogged down my belt, what is the advantage of the ratchet?
That hasn't been explained to me.
I can't see a reason for it?
Or is it marketing hype? Different isn't necessarily better.


Tracking, and running in reverse are Way more important to me.
 
It's been explained to me that ratcheting enables a slack belt - for convex grinding. I've had more than one maker share that that tension system is the one to go for in a machine.
 
nailcreek said:
It's been explained to me that ratcheting enables a slack belt - for convex grinding. I've had more than one maker share that that tension system is the one to go for in a machine.
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How slack is slack?

I do flat/convex grinds on the knives I make.
I run my belts reverse and utilize the top surface area of the grinder.
It's pretty unsupported, id call it slack.

I'm not sure what ratcheting would do?
Serious question. I'm not saying it's not better, but nobody has explained Why, or how..... They just all say it's better. I'm curious.


I agree about spending money on good tables.
I have a Pheer.
Love my grinder. It was low cost, but I had to upgrade my workrest. The one it comes with is small. They do have upgrades though. I made mine.
 
Take a second look at the Reeder. It is a fine machine. The construction is top notch in materials with flawless workmanship. Greg and Don even lathe turn their rubber contact wheels to an insane tolerance. I really like their rolling base table accessory, too. It is not a cheap stamped metal stand, but a solidly built grinder base table. It is made for the Reeder grinder and not something you have to retrofit. I would almost say it is a must for most folks with a small shop. A second plus for Reeder grinder and base is they are aluminum. That works well with a Kool-Mist system for blade cooling and belt lube.

I don't think the tension issue between grinder types is as big a deal as many people makes it out to be. When the TEW-90 came out with the ratchet tensioner it was Ohh-Ahh, Wow! what a great idea. I was impressed, too. But, even on my TW-90 it is sometimes hard to get the tension right. The pawl also gets sticky and needs cleaning and oil regularly.
My Reeder never seems to have a problem. I built a pneumatic tensioner for my Bader B3 but never installed it (I gave the B3 to a fellow knifemaker). I may put it on the Reeder at some time, but the latching tension adjustment is pretty simple and easy to use, so the tensioner may just sit on the shelf until another use comes along.
The Reeder tensioner is far better than the Bader that you have to hold with one hand and set with the other.

There are pluses and minuses with every grinder model. IMHO, for the price the Reeder gets the most pluses for the fewest minuses.

As far as keeping the cost down, a Reeder is probably the best bang for the buck. The Reeder basic chassis has two tool arm slots and their Ultimate has three. The basic has a brace to allow turning to horizontal, the Ultimate rotates on a triangular stand (both end with the same result). Besides that, there isn't a lot of difference between the top model and the basic chassis.
You can fit the basic with an eBay motor/VFD package for a very affordable price. If you want an Uber Grinder package, The Ultimate is a great deal compared to other manufacturers top packages. But, the basic package plus the wheels kit and a motor/VFD package will cost 1/2 what the Ultimate costs. You can outfit it with a rolling base, 2HP motor/VFD, 10" contact wheel, and rotary platen, for about the same price as the Ultimate.
Reeder also makes superb accessories, from rotary platens to surface grinders specifically matched to their grinders. Every part on their grinders is available for needed repairs, too.
 
I just bought a Reeder. Still looking for a motor. I spoke to Greg, he did mention some guys saying spring concerns but had suggested remedies for them. A thought just came to mind, I don't see why you or they could not just put a height adjustment control under the spring. You could maybe put a knob height adjustment screw between a bearing or pivot of some sort so you did not twist the spring.
 
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I'm mostly concerned with the alignment issue - if the machine axle seating isn't perfectly ( 90 degrees ) aligned, belt tracking will be wonky. I know some builders use regular bolts for axles to keep cost down, but that seems a poor choice as alignment errors likely stack on each other. Relying on tracking adjustment seems a poor way to resolve build/material problems.
 
nailcreek said:
I'm mostly concerned with the alignment issue - if the machine axle seating isn't perfectly ( 90 degrees ) aligned, belt tracking will be wonky. I know some builders use regular bolts for axles to keep cost down, but that seems a poor choice as alignment errors likely stack on each other. Relying on tracking adjustment seems a poor way to resolve build/material problems.
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I think people are over thinking it.

Hypothetically, Your perfect, dead nuts, very expensive grinder. One that everyone drools over......

The belts you buy Aren't to be perfect.
You Will still have to track them. You will. So who cares, as long as tracking is great.

We aren't making watches.
 
I hesitate to comment on these discussions because obviously I’m a little biased as to who makes the best grinder 🤪

With that being said though I have built and scrapped more grinders than I care to admit. All in the name of figuring out what works and what doesn’t work. So I’ll try to explain some of what I learned.

I like to wet grind and so having aluminum and stainless steel components is much better for maintenance and longevity in my opinion. Also, from a machining perspective aluminum is faster to machine and tends to be more consistent in staying flat than steel.

I’ve built spring, gas strut, pneumatic and ratchet tensioners. Springs and gas struts behave similar but the struts are more likely to fail due to dust. Pneumatic tensioners are awesome in theory but in practice they are not very consistent or reliable. To make a production pneumatic tensioner that works like it needs to it would cost way to much and it requires an air compressor to run. The best part about a ratchet tensioner in my opinion is that they hold consistent tension when you apply pressure to the belt. The other three tensioners all can give a little under tension. This is a factor in how stable the belt runs. Also, the ratcheting tensioners are just fun to run 😁

From a performance perspective there is no exception for build quality. The pulleys and frame need to be square and they need to stay that way under use. Grinders vibrate a lot and stuff likes to creep. How well a grinder performs is dictated by the design of the grinder and not necessarily just the features it has. You can build ratcheting tensioners etc that don’t work worth a darn. Believe me I know.

Another side note:

When I was prototyping grinders REK Knives REK Knives had a crowned rubber contact wheel made for his grinder and suggested I do the same. I had some made and I’m here to tell you that is the way to go. The life of the rubber drive wheel is way better than an aluminum one. As soon as an aluminum one starts to wear the performance starts to decline. Also, I believe the rubber helps handle side load on the belt when you grind heavy. They help to keep the belt from walking off especially when running in reverse.

Hopefully that helps someone. All the grinders mentioned in this thread will make a knife.
 
Contender Machine said:
I hesitate to comment on these discussions because obviously I’m a little biased as to who makes the best grinder 🤪

With that being said though I have built and scrapped more grinders than I care to admit. All in the name of figuring out what works and what doesn’t work. So I’ll try to explain some of what I learned.

I like to wet grind and so having aluminum and stainless steel components is much better for maintenance and longevity in my opinion. Also, from a machining perspective aluminum is faster to machine and tends to be more consistent in staying flat than steel.

I’ve built spring, gas strut, pneumatic and ratchet tensioners. Springs and gas struts behave similar but the struts are more likely to fail due to dust. Pneumatic tensioners are awesome in theory but in practice they are not very consistent or reliable. To make a production pneumatic tensioner that works like it needs to it would cost way to much and it requires an air compressor to run. The best part about a ratchet tensioner in my opinion is that they hold consistent tension when you apply pressure to the belt. The other three tensioners all can give a little under tension. This is a factor in how stable the belt runs. Also, the ratcheting tensioners are just fun to run 😁

From a performance perspective there is no exception for build quality. The pulleys and frame need to be square and they need to stay that way under use. Grinders vibrate a lot and stuff likes to creep. How well a grinder performs is dictated by the design of the grinder and not necessarily just the features it has. You can build ratcheting tensioners etc that don’t work worth a darn. Believe me I know.

Another side note:

When I was prototyping grinders REK Knives REK Knives had a crowned rubber contact wheel made for his grinder and suggested I do the same. I had some made and I’m here to tell you that is the way to go. The life of the rubber drive wheel is way better than an aluminum one. As soon as an aluminum one starts to wear the performance starts to decline. Also, I believe the rubber helps handle side load on the belt when you grind heavy. They help to keep the belt from walking off especially when running in reverse.

Hopefully that helps someone. All the grinders mentioned in this thread will make a knife.
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Your grinder looks to me the best designed one out there that I’ve seen. And with the motor and VFD included $4000 is actually a great deal for all that you have designed into it.
 
oceanrider said:
Your grinder looks to me the best designed one out there that I’ve seen. And with the motor and VFD included $4000 is actually a great deal for all that you have designed into it.
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Thank you I appreciate that.

I’ve definitely got a lot of time into that design and I’m sure as more time goes on I’ll find things that need refined.

It’s definitely tough these days to build something like that cheaply.
 
For those who don't know the Reeder tension setting system:
You press the tracking/tension arm down and lock the spring with a flip of the lever. You adjust the tool arm on the belt and then just give the tracking/tension arm a push down, releasing the lock lever, and it pops up at the proper tension. It is as fast as the TEW-90.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
For those who don't know the Reeder tension setting system:
You press the tracking/tension arm down and lock the spring with a flip of the lever. You adjust the tool arm on the belt and then just give the tracking/tension arm a push down, releasing the lock lever, and it pops up at the proper tension. It is as fast as the TEW-90.
Click to expand...
That’s the way to build that type of tensioner. The grinders without a latch are not near as handy to adjust.
 
I’ve had the KMG-TX for about 5 months and haven’t had any complaints with it. All I’ve had to do maintenance wise is just check everything for tightness on occasion. As long as you buy quality you’ll be fine. You’ll find reviews all over the map for any grinder out there. Take them all with a grain of salt. I would Recommend going with the biggest motor you can run. I got a 3 hp with mine. I’d also recommend avoiding “everything you’ll ever need” packages a lot of manufacturers offer. Most of them have a bunch of stuff you‘d rarely if ever use.
 
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