Yet Another Firearm Thread

[Steely_Gunz]

Well, all the cool kids are starting firearm threads...peer pressure is a mutha!

Honestly, being a gun n00b, I do have some questions about a potential firearm purchase as well as thoughts on a particular firearm that was already purchased by my father-in-law. I'd like to get a little info on the pros and cons of a particular shotgun so I know what might go wrong, what kind of ammo to feed it, and how it behaves in a less than ideal situation.

As you all know, I'm pretty doggone longwinded so I apologize in advance for the coming wall o' words

OK, so yesterday I helped my father-in-law buy a shotgun. He's in his mid sixties and is suffering an eventual loss to cancer. Luckily, most of his ducks are in a row, so his "loose ends" are pretty light in scope. He and my mom-in-law bought a nice RV and traded in their hitched camper about a year ago that my m-i-l intends to keep using for travel after dad passes on. However, he worries about her on her own. She is a largish woman, but is obviously in her sixties and will be camping in parking lots over night while traveling (the lady loves the casinos). Dad wanted to get something that was light enough for her to wield, compact enough to swing in a close quarter RV, and had a presence to make someone think twice before entering uninvited (think the bark of wracked slide).
After poking around a bit, we found a very very lightly used (used meaning probably bought, fired a couple times, and thrown in a closet) Mossberg 500 "Persuader" at Gander Mountain. 18.5" barrel, adjustable telescoping stock (with places for 5 extra shells), and even one of those nice tacticool nylon loops on the slide. The thing looks like it came out of a zombie film, but at just over 6.5lbs and packable, it fit the bill. To be honest, if they had another I probably would have bought it
My question is, what are some of the things to watch out for on the 500's? This is going to be a very light use gun. My predictions? We take mom to the range and she fires it a few times. It hurts her shoulder, but she agrees to keep it in the RV to make dad feel better. After dad is gone, it rides around in the RV until she gets tired of it or gets to the point where she no longer wants to travel that way. It'll probably then be handed down to me. My main concern is that it is stored or prepped to always be at the ready while mom has potential use for it. If she ever touches the thing it's going to be in a perceived life or death situation. The guy talked dad into pheasant shot. The RV is a large on, but in the situation where mom's going to use it, it'll be close enough to blow a man out of his boots. Anything else she should feed it instead?

OK, now for MY end of things. I too am in the market for a firearm. It might be pistol, could be a revolver, could be a shottie, could be a rifle. I'm all up in the air as to for what to get. I've look at it a hundred different ways, and I've decided it would probably just be best to ask the source found here in the cantina.

As a lot of you know, my family had our place of business broken into, robbed, and set on fire at the beginning of August. We are almost 100% back in and better than ever! However, the experience has left me feeling violated. I mean, this is a safe area...or so i thought. If it could happen here, it could happen at home. Also, what would have happened if someone had been here when it happened. What if someone had come by in the process?
I have decided that I want to purchase a firearm for both home/vehicle and office protection. I already have a single shot 12g shotgun that I used for killing pumpkins as a youth. Not a bad gun, but obviously not the best of # of rounds. I also have access to an extremely old 5 shot .38. However, until i get that double checked by a smith, I won't be using that.

What I am looking for:

• Does not have to be small, but I would like it compact enough to ride in my truck. No Kentucky Long Rifles Please
• It does not have to fit in my waistband. I'm not looking for something to pack when I'm not packing a gun. This won't be for on the street, although if I do purchase a handgun, I will probably go ahead and get a CCW.
• It has to be cost effective and reliable.
• Pretty is not an issue. While i would love a very nice looking gun, this one is going to be stored in a truck or tucked in a nightstand.
• Corrosion might be an issue. I work in a pool store with lots of chemicals. It doesn't take much time in this atmosphere to start the pitting process. It might be left here from time to time.
• I would like stopping power, but more importantly to me is cost effective ammo which is easy to obtain (no $5 a pop rounds if it can be helped).
• Over penetration is not a real concern, but some info as to what kind of ammo would stop a bad guy, but not kill the neighbor 3 houses over would be greatly appreciated.
• And a distant point, something that could theoretically take larger game if it is a rifle that you recommend. I don't hunt, but if my truck gun rides around with me I would like it to pull the double duty of not drawing a lot of attention as well as being functional on camping trips where run ins with larger animals is possible.

That's really all I need. I received a check for some personal property that I lost in the fire. Most of it, I don't think I will bother replacing. However, the wife wants most of that to go towards a nice trip (our last one before trying to have kids..yikes!), so I have a budget of really no more than $500.00 or so. Basically, she is NOT a gun person, but understands my logic. However, she does not understand the investment of gun. Over the years, she has grown used to me coming home with knives that were 50 bucks her or 70 bucks there.This is going to be something that i just come home without much of a paper trail. All she is going to know is that whatever I buy was "on sale" she won't know the difference between a $200 piece and a $500 piece

Final random question, how well do shotgun shells keep long term? I have some that were not kept in the best of conditions that go with my single shot 12g. However, I never fire the thing. Some of them are close to 9 years old. If you think they would still work, I'd just give them to my father-in-law to put through mom's new 500.


Thanks for reading, and sorry about the length!

 

[DannyinJapan]

Shotgun cylinder springs are built with storage in mind, but I think just keeping three shells in there would be fine. Three shells of 12 gauge ought to take care of any problem.
At close range, ANY shell type would work. Personally, I like #1 shot. Peter Capstick (a famous Safari hunter) used #1 shot in his shotgun when going after wounded leopard. He said that despite the fact that #1 shot is very slightly smaller diameter than 00 or 000, you can get more of the pellets in the shell. The end result is more lead going downrange with the same penetration and spread.


For you, my first thought was: Ruger 44mag carbine. It can do almost anything except maybe long range on larger game, but even then, it might do well.

Or, maybe a stainless steel lever gun, like the Rossi Puma in 357 mag. Corrosion resistant, good for combat or hunting, not too big, easy to work, etc...

 

[pinetree]

I would look for a 4" stainless 357/38 special. I have a Taurus 66, 7 shot and it is a solid gun. I would load it with +p 125g JHP 38 special rounds. I also have a snubby, but it is more for ccw. The bigger gun is much easier to shoot. Semi's are fun, I love my 1911s, but you don't sound like a shooter. I'd find a good used revolver.

 

[raindog101]

Steely,
I'm not a regular in here, so I hope you don't mind my semi-quick interjection on the subject.
Firstly, about the shottie. I have a Mossy 500, have had it for a long time, and it is one of the finest guns I have ever owned. It will do just about anything you ask of it, and needs little maintenance. Super-easy to clean, and a fairly simple manual-at-arms. However, I recommend losing the telescoping stock. It sounds like a pistol grip, AR-type stock like Spec-Ops makes. Here's the problem (relatively minor for the experienced, but more problematic for the newbie): it's much more difficult to operate the safety with a pistol grip, without changing your grip significantly on the rifle. With a typical rifle stock, it is simplicity itself to reach the safety with either thumb, as long as your fingers aren't too stubby. Much less likely to make a mistake in a tense situation if you can lay your thumb on the safety, while still keeping a firing grip on the weapon. You can pick up a nice synthetic Speedfeed rifle-type stock instead, which is nice as it has a 4-round capacity in the stock, should you need it. In addition, I second the use of #1 shot. Danny has it right, you can cram more lead in a shell with #1, than with 00 or 000. And my last word on the Mossy: carry it fully loaded. Yes, 3 shots may be enough to solve most problems, but the extra 2 shells don't add much to the weight, so why not just have them in there, at the ready?
As far as your weapon choice, I agree with Pinetree and Danny again on this one. A .357 is a fine choice for a handgun, as you have versatility (.38 or .357), portability, and man/beast stopping power. What's more, you can pick up a nice lever gun (I recommend Marlin) in that caliber, that is capable of taking small-medim size game at decent ranges, and is a blast to just shoot around with. Makes a nice truck gun too. My dream combo is a S&W 686 stainless in a 4" barrel paired up with a Marlin model 1894. You can do just about anything with that combo. And if you plan on shooting a caliber like that more than a little, it may be cost-effective in the long run to look into reloading your ammo. Ammo just keeps getting more expensive.
Hope this helps, and keep us all posted on your choice(s).

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Thanks so much for your reply, guys A lot of the things I was thinking about are cropping up. If i'm not careful, I just might learn something I'm hoping to hit a couple of stores this weekend if i can break away from the office.

 

[Sutcliffe]

Mine's in .45 colt, but all calibers are good, hundred yard, cartridges. These guys weigh all of 6 lbs and are short enough to stash/stow behind the seat, trunk, whatever.
Handguns might be a little more open to your own preference. .357's are nice but the associated recoil and blast might be more than new shooters can handle. A good .38, with proper ammo, can be easy to shoot well and very effective. Revolver's are easier to learn on and less likely to have a Negligent discharge.
I'm not a huge shotgun fan, but Mossberg makes a model 500 combo with 28" waterfowl barrel and 20" home defense that you can swap out.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

For your MIL - A sub 7lb. 12 pump will hurt to shoot. Most telescoping style stocks don't have much padding, if any, and she will NOT like shooting it. I'm not familiar with the Mossberg per se, but use a Remington 870, also a pump. I store it with the magazine loaded, minus 1, chamber empty, safety off. That way, if I need to shoot something, all I have to do is rack it and I'm ready to go. If, however, the slide release on that mossberg is difficult to access with that particular stock on it, I would also recommend changing the stock out for a short wooden one with plenty of buttpad on it.

Because of the recoil factor, I recommend that you load the shotgun with lowbrass game loads, with the shot as large as you can find. This will be a very effective load at short distance, and because I assume she will be staying in RV parks, overpenetration is a very real issue. Lots of folks will poo-poo birshot as a stopper, but it will do the job and be safer for noncombatants.

For you - I'm a Glock guy, mainly, and a Glock is a good choice for someone with needs like yours. It's very corrosion resistant, and very reliable.

My dual setup is a Glock 22 paired with a Keltec Sub2000, both in .40 S&W.

This makes for a very compact package -

They both use Glock .40 magazines, which are some of the most reliable magazines on the market. I have no heartburn with loading them up and leaving them sit for months at a time.

A Glock 22 can be had for under $500 if you do your research, and the Keltec is in the same price range. A light can easily be mounted on both weapons. Any load you choose to keep in your chosen weapon will need to be test fired for accuracy and reliability first. Most folks recommend hollowpoint ammunition from a premium manufacturer. There are tons and tons of loads on the market to choose from.

Andy

 

[Yvsa]

Jake I also like the .357 Mag/.38Spc. combo. I have the little Marlin .357 Mag. Lever Carbine with a Ruger Security Six that has a very light and crisp trigger. I bought the Ruger used at a gun shop in Cottage Grove Oregon years ago for $150.00. It had a little holster wear but was very well maintained and with the trigger the way it is I know it's had a trigger job done on it along with the upgraded sights.
What's really nice with the carbine is that you can use .38's in it for plinking at reasonable ranges even though methinks it's more accurate with the .357 round. I've told the tale about shooting a squirrel out of the top of a tree with my carbine too many times here to repeat it again but it's damned accurate with the open sights it comes with, usually after some minor adjustments for windage of course, or at least mine is.
I bought the .357/.38 over the .44 Mag because I didn't like the way the .44 Mag revolvers hammered my wrist even though you would have a bit more power and range with the larger caliber.
I don't know if it was true or not but I'd also heard the .357 Mag Carbine was gonna be legal for Elk up to 100 yards in Oregon and because I heard that from a trusted source was another reason I opted for the smaller round.

But if you're not much of a shooter and wasn't raised up in a hunting family with several guns around that you got to shoot fairly often as a child and don't plan on a lot of practice, practice, practice, methinks a scattergun would be your better choice.:thumbup:
Even though I have the Ruger/Marlin .357 Combo I still bought a Mossberg 500 12 gauge for home/yard defense simply because of the over penetration problems with solid bullets in a house, etc. I also use and recommend the bird shot for home defense mainly because it's easier to defend your position in court with bird shot because if you have it loaded with anything heavier the LEO's, Courts, etc, are probably going to look at the situation differently, all IMO of course.

Also keeping in mind that you said you wanted to be able to throw it in the back of your truck, here let me put it in your word's....

Snipped:

• "this one is going to be stored in a truck or tucked in a nightstand.

• Corrosion might be an issue. I work in a pool store with lots of chemicals. It doesn't take much time in this atmosphere to start the pitting process. It might be left here from time to time.
• I would like stopping power, but more importantly to me is cost effective ammo which is easy to obtain (no $5 a pop rounds if it can be helped).
• Over penetration is not a real concern, but some info as to what kind of ammo would stop a bad guy, but not kill the neighbor 3 houses over would be greatly appreciated.
• And a distant point, something that could theoretically take larger game if it is a rifle that you recommend. I don't hunt,"

Snipped....

Anyway, whatever you do be sure and put a wide piece of Scotch Tape over the muzzle and especially on a scattergun!!!!
Guns that are carried around, left alone for long periods of time in your house/whatever room it may be in, and not checked often, can be homesteaded by a mud dobber and consequently the barrel can be plugged solid with a great gob of very hard mud that could lead to very disastrous results!

I'm sure the other guys here know more about what's available in the gun world today as to any sort of firearm that's easy to maintain without much care or pampering. That's why I bought my Ruger 10/.22 in stainless steel instead of the pretty blued finish I'd rather have. If there were a way of getting a stainless steel scattergun without having to spend an arm, leg, and a left test tickle I'd opt for it over a traditional finished one.:thumbup:

 

[Kismet]

The five shot snubbie will be fine.

Then, get a cheap pump 12, used, cut barrel to 20inches, smooth it off, will work for slugs should you go deer hunting at some time, and makes the whole package "handier" for home defense. Whole package under $200, easily.

If you need a bead in front, a drill and a brass screw work wonders.



Kis
enjoy every sandwich

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Thanks again, guys right now I am leaning towards a long arm. After reading up on the net (yeah, i know. it has to be taken with a grain of salt), I'm still up in the air on the carbine or the shotgun. Like I said, I used to shoot a cheapy 12 gauge when I was a teenager. I never really enjoyed it because of the kick (that and the gun was barebones. No padding or anything). i would LIKE to get back into shooting. I have a range not too far from the house. A carbine would give me something a little more enjoyable to shoot. Although, a standard pump action shottie is going to be something that my wife could use should the need ever arise.

As far as my mother-in-law's gun goes...I don't think she'd ever use it even if it were custom made for her. To be honest, the first time she'll pick it up after dad is gone would be in an absolute life or death situation. She'll fire it wrong, twist her wrist, and probably mess up her shoulder, but hopefully the badguy will be dead (or wishing he was). My dad-in-law is really just hoping that the wrack of the slide is enough. You never know.

I was leaning toward a handgun as well. I was looking at a very nice .357 the other day (and I still might give it another look) with a manageable 4" barrel. However, I was told just the other day that I am indeed being handed down my dad-in-law's .38 special. It's another 5 shot, but its actually in good shape. Actually, it belonged to HIS dad and was issued to him when he was an IRS agent in the 30's and 40's. Keep in mind that he was an agent in VEGAS in the 30's and 40's...I'm surprised they didn't issue him a .45

I still have a lot of research to do. I'm hoping to be able to go take a look at some this weekend, but i don't know if my work schedule will allow that.

 

[Eric006]

I did not get my first firearm until about a year ago, a Ruger sp101 .357 magnum. I've got three revolvers now. I've toyed with the idea of getting a .357 lever action, as has been suggested by several. One thing I've learned, the gun habit is more expensive than the knife habit. My boys probably won't inherit much from me, but they will get a few weapons.

Jake, I don't recall seeing it among your criteria, and you mentioned your wife is not a gun person, but would you want her to be able to use the firearm you ultimately select, if she had to? This is something a few folks mentioned when I was looking for my first gun, and it weighed into my final decision.

Good luck. I'm interested in hearing what you decide to get. A good friend of mine likes to quote something his brother once told him on the subject of firearms: "Always buy guns - they're good." I like that.

Eric

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Jake, I don't recall seeing it among your criteria, and you mentioned your wife is not a gun person, but would you want her to be able to use the firearm you ultimately select, if she had to? This is something a few folks mentioned when I was looking for my first gun, and it weighed into my final decision.
Eric

I would say that in a SHTF scenario, I would like my wife to be able to use the firearm. Whatever I buy, I am going to show her how to load it, unload it, make it safe, and of course how to make it go bang. I only commented on the shotgun for her use as she would have greater chance of an off center shot hitting something. I know that you can still miss, but a near miss between a shotgun and a rifle round is the difference between whizzing one past the guy's ear and taking half his neck off.
Luckily for me, my lifestyle and line of work do not require that I am out of town or gone from the house much more than she is. To be honest, she travels more than i do
She's a strong girl, 5'11, with that good Germanic musculature (she calls it the "Zibert Booty" (mother's maiden name). Most weapons aren't going to be too much for her to handle if she fires them a time or two. She's an Amazon.

 

[gravertom]

I I only commented on the shotgun for her use as she would have greater chance of an off center shot hitting something. I know that you can still miss, but a near miss between a shotgun and a rifle round is the difference between whizzing one past the guy's ear and taking half his neck off.

At close range, shotguns can miss clean.

+1 on the conventional shotgun stock for your Dad's shotgun.

Some thoughts...

You could get a 10/22 and an SKS for less than $500. SKS= semi auto, powerful cheap ammo, sturdy, short enough for a truck gun. Then you have the 10/22 for the all imprtant regular practice, and small game hunting if necessary.

I like the 357 lever concept too.

If you are going handgun, a Stainless Ruger Blackhawk 6 1/2 inch in the 9mm/357 combo is very worthy of consideration. 38, 357, and 9mm in the same gun, and a gun that might still function 300 years from now.

You could also go SKS and Ruger 22 semi auto pistol. Then, down the road, you have a nice trio. 12ga., centerfire rifle, and rimfire handgun.

All the best!

Tom

 

[wildmanh]

Hi Jake, I have a Marlin 1894 Carbine and Ruger Blackhawk 4-5/8" barrel both in .357 Magnum. A simmaler setup to Yvsa. The Marlin is only 6 pounds and really easy to shoot. Add a Skinner peep (ask for link if interested) sight and it's awesome!! Load both with 125 grain hollow points in either .357 Mag or .38 and you are good to go. Recoil is manageable in both guns and the light expanding bullet shouldn't over penatrate. Though for home defence I'd probably go with a Ruger GP100 (Double Action).

For practice you could get a Ruger Single Six and Henry H001 Levergun that would teach you and the wife the fundimentals of shooting pistol and carbine with out breaking the bank.

Throw in a shot gun and all your bases are covered out to 100 yards. BTW here's a thread with pics of my Marlin and Ruger just incase you didn't see the pictures earlier: .357 Magnum Combo

Heber

 

[Spectre]

Jake,

I'm sorry about your pop-in-law.

I would suggest reduced recoil buckshot for your MIL, but an even better idea is starting out with light dove shot, and building up to the buck or some shot larger than #BBB (F, FF, T, TT). A sliding stock is a much better idea than pistol grip only.

As far as a piece for you, I have some advice. If you KNOW or are pretty sure there's going to be a dangerous situation, a longarm (rifle or shotgun) is the way to go. A stock gives more accuracy and more control and even more speed at all but contact distance- and longarms are more powerful than handguns.

If you want something that can be easily carried in a vehicle...well...I almost posted on another board about half an hour ago, to see if there was interest in a handgun I have. It's a common caliber, powerful but not wrist-snapping, a 4" stainless piece, that I would sell for well within your budget*. Email me if you're interested.

*Or even work out a trade for some edged tools, or combination of tools/funds.

John

 

[Ad Astra]

Jake, save time. Skip intermediary firearms and go straight to the belt-fed. They're pure fun.

1919a4 Browning .30 Cal. LMG.


Mike

 

[Kismet]

The first use of this thing is going to be in an RV, right?

uh....

might reduce the emphasis on .357 or the like, and stick with light load shotgun.



justsayin'

 

[Spectre]

I don't think Jake is asking about his own firearms for use in an RV, Kis.

 

[gravertom]

Jake, save time. Skip intermediary firearms and go straight to the belt-fed. They're pure fun.



1919a4 Browning .30 Cal. LMG.


Mike

Nice!

That would fit into most RVs very well.

BTW Mike, thanks for getting me hooked on the Finnish strain of Mosinitis...

:barf::foot:



I shoulda listened to John, and just bought an SKS...



Tom

 

[Kismet]

Ok. Spectre. Got it.

ty