Yet another help me decide thread

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Aug 5, 2002
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I am currently looking at putting my money on a Fehrman Extreme Judgement that was pretty set in stone till I saw the new Busse Fusion Battle Mistress. Anyone know when the Busse will hit the street. Can you guys help me out with any comparison info.

I am aware of the differences between INFI and CPM-3V. Has anyone felt the new straight handled Fusion BM?

I know they are both quality blades so I don't think I could go wrong either way.
I don't want to start any flame wars but just a good pro and con feel for each.

TIA

KS
 
Can't help you with the comparison, but I have a lot more confidence in a company that puts out a product that stays in production for more than a month. The monthly changeover of available Busses, specials, numbered runs, etc. looks to me more like a way to stimulate collectors than a way to sell top-quality knives. When I look at how many Busses seem to be for sale here on the forum, my trepidation increases. Of course if you just want to look at it for a while and then unload it without too much loss, that may be just the ticket.

<asbestos suit on> Gordon
 
gaj999 said:
Can't help you with the comparison, but I have a lot more confidence in a company that puts out a product that stays in production for more than a month. The monthly changeover of available Busses, specials, numbered runs, etc. looks to me more like a way to stimulate collectors than a way to sell top-quality knives. When I look at how many Busses seem to be for sale here on the forum, my trepidation increases. Of course if you just want to look at it for a while and then unload it without too much loss, that may be just the ticket.

<asbestos suit on> Gordon

Gordon,

I'm a bit confused as to why our only offering one or two models per month would shake your confidence in Busse Combat. We have been making knives for over 22 years. We currently only offer one or two models per month in order to facilitate our being able to offer many custom options that would, otherwise, not be feasible. Most of our knives are now offered with up to 64 different handle/blade finish combinations. Normally, only a custom shop can offer the customer that many options. It has also allowed us to put much more attention to our finish and detail.

As for more confidence in our product you might note that we are still the ONLY manufacturer who has proven our performance claims in front of "Live" audiences at many of the major shows throughout the country. There is not a another manufacturer who has stepped up and followed suit. Nor have any other manufacturers claimed to have even come close to the performance of a Busse Combat blade. If our competition's knives were up to the task, don't you think that they would make a point of advertising it?

You can certainly recommend another maker's blades without taking a shot at us in the process. We all love nice knives, and fortunately, there are a lot of really nice knives out there. :cool:

Jerry
 
Not dissing your knives, Jerry. Haven't heard bad things about them except slicing ability, which I wouldn't expect from a 1/4" combat/survival blade. I find artificial scarcity marketing ploys personally irritating. I clipped this quote from the sticky in the Busse forum. Maybe I interpretted it incorrectly.

Quote from the Busse forum sticky: "This 12 month stretch between batch runs, should make reselling your Busses very easy during the interim."

Gordon
 
gaj999 said:
Haven't heard bad things about them except slicing ability,

This comes up from time to time and it is just wrong. If you want a great Busse slicer look at the Active Duty, it is strong, durable, lightweight and an incredible slicer. To be honest statements such as this just indicate how little people know about the Busse line.

And back to the original question, I'd much rather spend my money with a company that has a proven track record(20 years seems good enough ;) ) and that I know will be around for years to come. Not that I've ever used any of their warranty services but it is nice to know they'll be around if needed.

:D:D
 
While I have Mr. Busse and Mr. Issacson here, can you guys tell me the estimated order or delivery dates of the BM-Fusion? I haven't really been able to find any info that nails it down in the Busse Forum or Official Busse Forum.
I appreciate everyones input and am just trying to get some general opinions.

KS
 
gaj999 said:
When I look at how many Busses seem to be for sale here on the forum, my trepidation increases.
<asbestos suit on> Gordon

To me, the fact that there are a lot of Busse knives being bought and sold usually for hundreds of dollars on a website full of knife critics... well, If they didn't live up to their reputation do you think we'd keep doing it? :confused: Busse knives have a long-term well-established reputation.

Ryan
DrClckWrk
 
I don't own a Fehrman as yet but I also am interested. Busse blades are known for their quality and certainly the couple I own are worth the money (Satin Jack and a Basic 9). Added to that is the fact that I have not yet read a bad report about Fehrman knives. I too am interested in a comparison between these two quality makers. Because I live in a tropical area, Busse have their nose in front at the moment because of their corrosion resistance, but then Fehrman have a reputation for producing slicers even in their big knives - decisions, decisions - isn't it terrible having too many quality blades around.

As an aside, Gordon I think your assumption is wrong. I think a few Busse's are going quite inexpensively on the second hand market at the moment. I think people are unloading in the expectation of having the newest latest version of the Battle Mistress. I just picked up a combat grade ZTBM with a factory sheath in pristine condition (well it hasn't actually arrived yet but I'm sure it's in pristine condition) for $290. I don't care if it's not the latest model - it's a great knife at a bargain price.
 
i wish i had asked to hol the bm-f at last years bladeshow west, and this year i realized it was going on on friday night - and i had to work both days +other engagements :grumpy:

from what i can tell, the fermans are a lot closer to the busse ergos, in that the handles are squared off instead of rounded. given, that the magnum handles are the ones of the new line that are almost completely round, on a whole, the boxy feel of the ergo's looks like its kind of there in the fermans too. but ive never handled a ferman, so i wouldnt know from experience.

the new fusion handles look like would have better ergo's then the fermans, if for nothing else because the fit and finish on them apears to be better. along with being rounder and with less squareish geometry. between the ergo's and the fermans - to be honest, i think id like the fermans better. (but i think id like the old straight handles from busse better then the fermans :D ).

with the current production schedule seeming to be on track, you can expect the bm-f to be here at least by march 2004. the wait time will probably be about 8-12 weeks, depending on if you get anything special (non stated items like serrations) on it. with the battle mistress, i assume that busse will beef up the production schedule, and they may offer it alone to help keep up with the demand. even with precaucions in place, your probably looking at 12 weeks.

i consider their current production schedule a blessing to the buyer - before ther were wait times as long as 9 months, some times longer. no one likes waiting that long for a knife that they've already paid for, and busse no longer does that with the standard models.

my basic 9 would be an intense slicer once i put a leather honed 21 degree edge on it, lay back the secondary bevel down to 18, maybe 15 degree's, and im good to go on any vegetable in my kitchen. and i just drew blood testing it out :( ... thats what i get for running my finger across the blade... i currently carry a 1/4" saber ground satin jack, and with the edge i put on it, it will initiate a cut just as easily as a 1/8" fully flat ground blade with the same primary edge angle. the wedging factor - for me - is worth it since i can do major chopping with the satin jack as it is. the 3/16 sj is an excellent slicer. and as was said before, the active duty is 1/8" if you need slicing as a priority.

dang my finger hurts now....

i've sold every busse blade ive had so far, not because they werent good enough, not because im collecting them, i sold them because i wanted to try a different model from busse to see if it would make a better edc. i sold them to help pay for another busse because im not that affluent that i can save knives that i dont use (though id like to be). ive used them all, and i continue to use the current busse's i have (wich im so far the most impressed with). no one offers the features that the current set i have offer, and thats why i buy them.



"I find artificial scarcity marketing ploys personally irritating. I clipped this quote from the sticky in the Busse forum. Maybe I interpretted it incorrectly.

Quote from the Busse forum sticky: "This 12 month stretch between batch runs, should make reselling your Busses very easy during the interim.""

i dont expect to buy a knife and like everything about it. when i use it, i expect there to be niggles about it. if the niggles become problems, i'll try to find a blade that doesnt have them, and to pay for that blade, i will sell the one that is giving me problems. i dont see it as a scarcety marketing ploy. most of the busse knives that have scarcety marketing are on the secondary market - no longer affiliated with busse as far as passing of money goes, and its because they are actually really rare, sometimes as rare as 3 in existence with certain features.
 
Sorry to steal this thread, but Seth I would love to hear how your basic 9 goes with chopping with the thinner edge. If it works, I'll probably try it on mine. How long did it take to regrind the edge? Did you regrind your 1/4 inch Satin Jack to the same angle (I also have the 1/4 inch)? Both mine have the factory edge on them at the moment.
 
the basic 9 has a factory edge, because thats the type of edge i like my big choppers to have, slightly overly built, but finished well. by steeling properply and leather honing, the busse factory assymetrical edge, wich in a dull state cant cut butter, becuase a very lively high performing cutting and chopping edge that is very strong.

i have my 1/4 saber le sj at 21 degree's primary, and 17 degrees secondary beveling. i considered making it a full convex on my handamerican once i had finished with it, but its to much effort for the little gain id get from it. and i liked the mirror polish i can get with beveling :)

thing about the satin jack vs. basic nine is that the satin jack has a whats closer to a zero edge the the basic 9 (my definition of zero edge = pukko style single bevel to edge,meaning an extremely small amount of metal behind the initial edge), so at the same angle, the sj will be inherently sharper for shallow cuts, because the initial wedge factory is smaller. on a whole though the basic 9 could be made much sharper because its a broader blade that is thinner farther up then the saber ground sj.

ive been impressed with the satin jacks performance with its new edge. like i said, the standard factory edge can be made extremely lively, but once its dulled its literally absolutly uses with its initial mirror polishing. you can help that by putting a gritted edge - but thats not something i really want since maintainance of a polished edge is available to me. and if it ever fails, i have my leathermans thin blade for rounded edge cutting (where you wedge it appart regardless of how dull you knife is).

i feel that you would honestly see and feel a noticable increase in the knifes cutting and chopping ability, but it would be at the cost of edge strength. cliff stamps basic 7 review is a good example of edge modifications effect. his basic end statment - i was unhappy with the performance of the factory edge, so i modified it to be thinner (this does however include the actual main grind bevels of the knife, up to the spine). - after the knife was broken after 2 1/2 years of abuse - it took a long time and a lot of hardcore beating to break this knife, but had it been factory geometry, it would have taken longer.

but thats the basic problem your gonna find with sharpening any blade. personally , im happy with the edge my basic 9 has on it. i just need to get better at placing momentum, weight, and accuracy to fully realize the potential of it, and the blade itelf. that satin jack kinda did need to be rebeveled to get it out of the "sharpened crowbar" catagory. it is now in the "sharpened prybar" catagory :D. i sharpened it after dark nemesis said "my knives are normally razor sharp, so all i need is the middle to tip area of the edge to make the cut". not what i was talkign about when i said it (i go forward to set the cut and make sure it doesnt slip off before getting finished), but it made me realize my knives arent sharp enough right now...

man i sure talk alot...



basically, their both great knives. i like infi better out of principle, but from what i understand, cpm3v is close to it in most aspects. the workmanship on the fermans compared to the ergo line would probably be a higher level because busse's were done on a high production level, fit and finish being based on performance, not on the higher level of "collector" fit and finishing that they are able to do now since they are offeroning only 1 or two knives per month. im pretty sure fermans have flush tangs, wich the ergo's didnt, though i beleive all the new busse's will.

like i said, the fermans are more comparable to the ergo's, and as far as that comparison goes, the ferman will have better fit and finish, and probably better ergonimics because of it. they steels are good enough that you probably will never be able to take the knife to its limits to see the real potential of them, so your choice should be dependent onhow they feel in your hand, and how you think they will perform having held them.

fermans compared to teh new line of busse's though, busse all the way. more thought has gone into the grips, and the blade shapes are all unique to busse. and the fit and finish has been raised considerably.
 
The Feherman EJ is a collaboration with the guy who designed and had built for himself the Busse Behemoth. The Behemoth is a pure custom 1 off and I am the current owner. There won't be another one, but if you look at pics of the 2 you can see the similarities. While ergoish, the handles are more rounded the the ergos. I really don't know about the Feherman grips, never handled one.

My personal favorites are the older straight handled BM's and that's all I have for the moment. The wait for the new Fusion BM looks to be a lengthy one, but worth it. Like a improved straight handle. I will certainly get one, but have my older SHBM's to tide me over in the wait. That is not your case I assume.

If you like the EJ, then get it. Or, you could scout around the exchange for a SHBM or a BM-E that would be a bit cheaper as there were more produced. Personaly I would get a SHMB then wait for the new Fusion. I just love my INFI.

Keep us updated on your decision.

Rob
 
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