Your advice please----------Questions

WILLIAM.M

WILLIAM.M

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Apr 14, 2006
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several friends and I are planning on doing some training in the woods--(central Texas-No snow-Temps 50's)

we will be limited to 2 tools/person(Blade,Axe or Saw)

We have 2 tests already planned..

#1: How long does it take you to build a fire with only a magnesium bar/flint and striker.(no matches/lighters/fuel cubes,etc--just what's available in the forest)

#2: what type of shelter can you build in 30 minutes..

What I would like to get from you guys is idea's of what other tests we should do????

You're lost in the woods--it's getting dark.

you build a fire and then shelter(or vice versa)--

then what other tasks would you need to know how to do....????

Lets assume food and water are available...

then what?????---

what if you were stranded and were forced to stay there several days or weeks..

Things like that...

Thanks for your suggestions

Bill


samuraironin@netzero.net
 
Well, your scenario is one where you're stranded, so I would think exercises on building signals for help would be a good thing to do.
 
Good point!!!

I'll add that to the list

thanks

We are wanting to practice all the skills (knife and otherwise) we would need if something bad happened..
 
Without a light, the decision on fire or shelter first depends on the weather in my book. If it is pouring, I want to use the available daylight to build up as good a shelter as I am going to largely manage since finding material in the dark while getting drenched is going to blow and a fire would require micromanagement anyways. Seeing flaws in the shelter is easier in the twilight too.

If it looks to remain clear, the fire won't need constant tending to, and if there is abundant fuel nearby, I would consider building the fire first since I cheat and use a bic, blast match, or fire piston depending on how much practice I want. By fire light in mild weather, a shelter can be constantly improved until you're bored with it.
 
One question,
Why no Lighters? I carry a mini Bic or Zippo (sometims both) every day and rarely carry a flint/steel or magnesium bar.
In a situation where you are stranded without your gear, I'd focus more on bowdrill skills as you should have the tools needed with you ( Knife and a length of rope/string/shoestring).
 
What we wanted most was to practice the skills necessary to stay alive ..

What else would you do.....???

your fire is burning--shelter is made--you have ate-drank,etc

do you make a weapon(spear for example)??-If for nothing else but to starve off PANIC...

What other things are needed??
 
Couple things you could work on:

1. First aid scenarios. How well and how quickly can you put together a splint, etc.

2. Primitive tool and weapon making.

3. if it's a clear night, practice direction finding using the stars.
 
We wanted to make it more of a challange in not using matches--

I have never tried the bow string method(seen it-never tried it)

Will add that to the list

:)

thanks

Rupe
 
Another thing might be to practice making several different types of shelters. Everybody tries sleeping in a different one. Compare notes the next morning on plus and minuses of each.
 
Rupestris said:
One question,
Why no Lighters? I carry a mini Bic or Zippo (sometims both) every day and rarely carry a flint/steel or magnesium bar.
Click to expand...

You should change that up and always carry a mag bar and seldom a bic, take an unexpected dunking and the mag bar is still going strong your bic or zippo is through till it drys. Chris
 
runningboar said:
You should change that up and always carry a mag bar and seldom a bic, take an unexpected dunking and the mag bar is still going strong your bic or zippo is through till it drys. Chris
Click to expand...

Runningboar, I agree 100%, if there's a choice to be made, otherwise, take both, in fact, take several. And as far as bow drill fire making goes, it should be #1 (with shelter building) on your list.

Doc
 
DOC-CANADA said:
Runningboar, I agree 100%, if there's a choice to be made, otherwise, take both, in fact, take several. And as far as bow drill fire making goes, it should be #1 (with shelter building) on your list.

Doc
Click to expand...

I'm curious on the bow drilling thing. I carry a minimum of three ways of making fire with me specifically because I don't believe I can be guaranteed success in bow drilling. This is, first, because it is a skill I've never bothered to obtain. But secondly, as I understand it, the success of a bow drill depends a lot on the materials you use to construct it. So let's say I figure out how to successfully make a bow drill in the northern Minnesota woods. Great. But what happens when I take that backpacking trip to the Sonoran desert? Am I likely to have equal success there building the bow drill rig? How about if I take a wrong turn while snowboarding in the High Sierra?

The reason why I like the idea of a PSK is because it allows me to affix critical tools to my person, one of which is one or two methods of fire starting (with a third and sometimes fourth method in my backpack or possibles bag). I realize this isn't in keeping with the philosophy of build-your-own-tools wilderness survival that some practice around here, but it seems to be a rather practical decision, at least for me.
 
I agree. The main benefit of bow-drilling is to find out first hand just how much it sucks.

In a pinch, the bow can be made with a stick and a boot lace. The spindle and bearing block is usually easy to find. The hard part is finding a suitable hearthboard that will make acceptable char with acceptable effort.

I love seeing bow drilling demonstrations with a pre-formed kit. If one is carrying around all of the componentry, someone can sure as heck carry multiple fire starters that are far more reliable and weather resistant. Field expedient bow drills are too much like relying on chance. I suppose the "drill," pun intended, is "could you make a bow drill rig in the wild?" Well, not even the TSA is smart enough to take away my blast match. The last TSA'er who saw it asked me what is was and I told him it was for cleaning golf cleats.:D

Bow drilling much will readily lead you to adopt almost anything else that proves easier. As primitive as I want to get is flint and steel or a fire piston, thanks.
 
bulgron said:
I'm curious on the bow drilling thing. I carry a minimum of three ways of making fire with me specifically because I don't believe I can be guaranteed success in bow drilling. This is, first, because it is a skill I've never bothered to obtain. But secondly, as I understand it, the success of a bow drill depends a lot on the materials you use to construct it. So let's say I figure out how to successfully make a bow drill in the northern Minnesota woods. Great. But what happens when I take that backpacking trip to the Sonoran desert? Am I likely to have equal success there building the bow drill rig? How about if I take a wrong turn while snowboarding in the High Sierra?

While it is true, your chance of success is partially dictated by the materials you use, (and before somebody takes exception to this, you can have great materials but other factors can prevent your success )rather than look for a specific kind of material, such as, say Poplar (Populus spp.), instead you look for material with the right properties - not too soft, not too hard (there is an old rule that says you should be able to dent the wood with a fingernail, not too easily which would mean the wood is either too soft or too rotten, and not with too much difficulty, which would mean it is quite hard and it would be much more difficult to be successful. Also it is better to avoid resinous woods, not because they can't work, but are usually more difficult.

The reason why I like the idea of a PSK is because it allows me to affix critical tools to my person, one of which is one or two methods of fire starting (with a third and sometimes fourth method in my backpack or possibles bag). I realize this isn't in keeping with the philosophy of build-your-own-tools wilderness survival that some practice around here, but it seems to be a rather practical decision, at least for me.
Click to expand...

It's a very practical decision, in fact most people that are proficient with friction fire, carry other means to make fire. Sometimes, you can get skunked, depending on the weather, the material, your physical state, etc., so to go into the bush with only your friction fire skills is upping the risk factor. It's a choice some make, and that's fine as long as they're aware of the risk.

I sense that you have an open mind to the possibility. I strongly urge you to make the effort. If you do, and when you're successful, a simple, "Thank you, Doc" will be reward enough. :)

If you need any help, feel free to ask. BTW, at the beginning, if you learn without personal instruction, there will be times when you think, "I'll never get this." but you will. And one advantage to learning this way, is when teaching others, because you've made every possible mistake, many times, it is easier to see what they're doing wrong. The silver lining, if you will. :D

Doc
 
I agree with that too. I hate bow drilling, but I still know how to do it with a measure of success. It's a skill worth having, but like a party trick, I only really practice it when I encounter someone who thinks its a trick beyond the average person, or for a curious scouting type who really wants to see someone do it.

The next person who wants to see some live bow drilling is my son, who unfortunately saw Les Stroud doing it on Survivorman. Since my son is five, I told him I'd show him next summer, when it will be easier than demonstrating during monsoon season.:D
 
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Sounds fun I just did that same thing in the backyard! Took all of 4 minutes for the fire and twenty for the shelter. The next part was to find water suitable for drinking then settle in for rabbit and pine tea in the twilight:D
 
Boats said:
I agree. The main benefit of bow-drilling is to find out first hand just how much it sucks. It can, at the beginning, to be sure, but when you succeed, what a feeling of accomplishment. Also, with the re-discovery of the Egyptian bow drill, the whole exercise became much easier.

In a pinch, the bow can be made with a stick and a boot lace. The spindle and bearing block is usually easy to find. The hard part is finding a suitable hearthboard that will make acceptable char with acceptable effort. Actually, the 2 hard parts in a wilderness situation, is the string and the head piece. You're correct in that a boot lace can be used, and the hearth board is usually the same material as the drill, although it doesn't have to be.

I love seeing bow drilling demonstrations with a pre-formed kit. If one is carrying around all of the componentry, someone can sure as heck carry multiple fire starters that are far more reliable and weather resistant. Demonstrators usually used 'pre-formed' kits because of the small attention span of most spectators. Not many people would follow you around as you find material to do the demonstration with.Field expedient bow drills are too much like relying on chance. I suppose the "drill," pun intended, is "could you make a bow drill rig in the wild?" Well, not even the TSA is smart enough to take away my blast match. The last TSA'er who saw it asked me what is was and I told him it was for cleaning golf cleats.:D What is TSA?

Bow drilling much will readily lead you to adopt almost anything else that proves easier. As primitive as I want to get is flint and steel or a fire piston, thanks.
Click to expand...

That is certainly your choice, and as your mind is made up, there's no point in discussing it further.

Doc
 
Well, I am only trying to be lightheartedly difficult. It was a real fun accomplishment the first time I did, but that wore off pretty quick with subsequent attempts and the odd failure.

Maybe I am put off by it because in the dank forests I hang around in, the material gathering for everything but a suitable head piece is rather tedious. In the summer, when things dry out, and making wood/wood char is easier, open fires are usually prohibited.:D

The TSA is the American transportation Gestapo. They check your papers and make sure you aren't carrying anything that can set a jet on fire. That they can't identify a blast match when told it's a cleat cleaner, underscores how well they do.

My only point about that is that if not even governmental flunkies will keep me from possessing a very effective firemaking tool, when would I ever be without it in the wilderness shy of having my clothes destroyed?
 
WILLIAM M., you might take a minimalist fishing kit along and see if you can scrounge up some fish for supper. Depends on the area though.

Other skills might be to set some basic traps and see what manner of wildlife you can snare. If you snare 'em though, dress 'em, cook 'em, and eat 'em.
 
Hell yes--this is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear.

I'll pass all your excellent suggestions to all the members of the group..

:)
 
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