Your opinions on knife usage

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fishbulb

Joined
Sep 18, 2001
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I have noticed recently that there seems to be two opposing points of view on the applications which one can reasonably expect to use a knife for.

One group feels that knives are for cutting, and that any usage outside of this is abusive and improper.

The other group thinks that knives should be able to function in many additional capacities, such as pry bar or hatchet. If a knive is not overbuilt enough to be put to extreme rough usage then it is judged to be unsuitable for carry.

Personally, I think that both of these views are a bit extreme.

I do believe that a good knife (even a folder) should be usable for more than just cutting. If one is only interested in efficient seperation of material then an Olfa or Stanley razor knife would work better than any more expensive blade. In my experience there have been a number of times when having a blade which could withstand light usage as a prying or scraping tool has made a significant difference in the ease with which a task could be completed. I don't mean cutting doors off of a Buick or peeling rocks, but things like opening cans or working on an unanticipated repair or similar project which requires more than just simple cutting. Having the right tool for the job is nice, but sometimes the situation makes that impossible.

I also think that expecting a knife to serve as a regular effective replacement for a wrecking bar or hammer is too extreme. Certainly there are knives that can do this, but significant compromises are required to make it happen; and frequently these compromises decrease the overall effectiveness of the knife as a cutting instrument. In automotive terms, you can buy a H1 or Defender if you really do need to perform some heavy duty off roading, but to say that an Accord is an inferior car because it can't pull stumps and climb mountains is unreasonable. It is simply built for a different usage. I suppose there are some limted applications where being able to put a folder in a bench vise and break a stick on the back of the blade could be useful, but in everyday usage these are rare to nonexistant.

I guess everybody takes a bit of each approach to their own choices, it's just a matter of where you want to draw the line. Some are happy with a thin slipjoint, others want a sharpened baseball bat. Personally I'm somewhere in the middle. I expect efficient cutting, and some limited degree of other usefulness.

What do you think, and where do you stand on this spectrum?
 
I have some knives that I expect to just cut, and don't plan on doing anything more. Then I have knives that are "sharpened baseball bats" as you put it. Those get beat to hell and back, because I know they will take it.

Other people like to fault certain knives for not taking abuse, when they weren't meant to be abused in the first place. Some knives are made to take abuse, others are not. I just make sure to reach for the most appropriate tool for the situation.

As far as my EDC goes, I happen to be carrying my Buck/Strider Large Spearpoint (a sharpened prybar) and my Benchmade 940 (my cutter). You can have the best of both worlds without too much trouble.
 
Personally i have always thought of a knife as a weapon first, anything else it could do was a bonus.
 
I'm with you fishbulb. My main concern is how well my blades cut, especially for folders. I have no use for super-tough tactical folders, if I need a knife that tough I'll get a fixed blade. But to each his own. For my big knives, I'm interested in how tough the edge is because they'll often encounter unforseen impacts. It's also nice if they can handle prying chores because there are legitimate situations where prying is useful, such as tearing apart a tree that's been partly chopped through. In the end it all comes down to the application. I have extreme light duty knives with very thin edges for straight cutting chores and EDC, and I have massively overbuilt tough knives for trail clearing and pretty much anything else. It's all dependent on the situation.
 
Hey, I already own a sharpened baseball bat - the BK7. At least thats how the handle felt when I first picked it up:).

I agree in that I think there is an element of gearfreak extremism in this obsession for the nuclear tough blade. Enthusiasts often grow so obessesed with function of the thing in the extreme that they forget about the core purpose. A mate who owns a bike shop told me that he once had a customer once ask what was the most aerodynamic handlebar tape!

I can't imagine using a folder for much else than cutting but I use my fixed blade for a few rougher jobs. Come to think of it, the main reason I take a fixed blade into the bush with me is for everything it does besides cutting. A rock makes a pretty poor hammer while the butt of the BK7 does fine. A stick makes an ok digger or prybar but the BK7 is better. A hatchet would be a better chopper but I don't have room for one in my pack or on my kayak - and the BK7 does these things as well. For me it's like a camping multi-tool. I did my without a big blade in the bush for years, but when I was finally turned onto one I realised how much of a time saver it is. Less time spent making shelter and fire means more time spent enjoying the bush.

But as Buzzbait (I'm thinking of basing my life on his teachings:D ) expressed in another thread recently, if you use a knife carefully and with a bit of skill you can do fine without the 1/2 inch thick bombproof blades that can withstand more abuse. 'Able to withstand abuse' is not a selling point for me because I don't abuse anything I own.
 
Knife duos are my way, too. I like to have a small folder as my EDC, but a larger, thicker-bladed knife for the tasks in which I'd never use my EDC. Right now that bigger knife is a tanto folder, but I'm considering a 'fixed-blade only' principle for work knives, and will probably do so. The Camillus CUDA MAXX might be an exception to that rule, though.
 
I try to cover all my bases by carrying multiple EDC's. My folders are for cutting, no need to pry with something that's already a compromise piece.

I carry at least one 3.5-4" fixed blade daily, and which one depends on what I'm doing. I have some that are more well suited to cutting and are carried most of the time. I have others that I can pound into a wall and jump on, and I carry them mostly when I'm in the woods or bored at work.

I think this is a good way to go, and from the few posts already here it looks like it's a pretty common way. I just don't see the point in carrying all the tools I need with me, my Leatherman(also always with me as an EDC) covers about 85% of what I need tool wise, and my tougher small fixed blades can usually make up the rest of it if I need them to.
 
Cutting first.

However, I tend to buy overbuilt knives both for their solid feel, and to compensate for my lack of cutting technique on the harder jobs.
 
Originally posted by Steven Roos:
I just make sure to reach for the most appropriate tool for the situation.
Click to expand...
I try to go by this rule as well but also understand that the correct tool may not always be readily available. I always admire those who admit they busted something because they tried to do something with it beyond its limitations.
Knives as weapons? Of course,...but I prefer to think of that use as a last option which borders on abuse...bones can bust a blade you know;)
 
Here is a good example of what I'm talking about by uses other than cutting.

A few weeks ago I was in a friend's car when it started leaking steam from under the hood. Upon inspection the radiator hose had developed a hole right near where it had attached to the radiator. There was enough slack that if the damaged section were cut out the hose could be reattached.

The only tool that was available was by EDC Benchmade 550/720 project.

It was used as a knife to cut through the hose.

It was then used as a screw driver to release the hose clamp.

It was then used as a pry tool to remove the damaged hose from the attachment point of the radiator. It had shrunk and melted enough that it wouldn't just pull off.

Finally it was screwdriver time again, as the hose clamp was replaced.

Was this abuse? Perhaps, although I said bye-bye to any sort of warrantee on this knife almost a year ago.

My friend should have had basic tools in his car. I should have had a multi-tool on me. But he didn't and I didn't so I had to make due.

ALso, I have a bit of a question for those who carry a prying folder in addition to a cutter. Why carry a folding knife for prying when you can get a small wrecker bar and cut it off to 4-5 inches? It is lighter and far cheaper than a tough folder, and a much more effective prying tool than any folder.
 
Fishbulb , I hear ya' man ! I am getting tired of the whole "knives are for cutting only" side of the debate . When a job must be completed , you make due with what you have . I've snapped the tips off of a couple knives because I didn't have the proper tool at the time , but I wasn't about to tell my employer "I can't finish the job because I don't have a prybar and I can't use my knife because it's only for cutting" :rolleyes: .
 
I'm not a sophisticated user. All my knives need to be is sharp, well designed, and heavy duty. I do try to use the right tool for the job, and I usually opt for the lightest tool that can accomplish the task. Because I am lazy, indelicate, and frugal, my needs are best served by well built and relatively inexpensive utilitarian implements in optimum working order.
 
When a radiator hose breaks I'm more likely to reach for my EDC than for the tool box in my trunk, but that is because my EDC is an Adventurer model SAK. First I would cut the hose off with the 3.25 inch locking knife blade. Then I would unscrew the clamp with the large screw driver tip (unless the clamp had a philips head in which case I'd use the philips head blade). To unstick the hose I would use the can opener tip and the large screwdriver. The hose clamp would go back on using the same screwdriver that took it off.

Is it abuse? Not in the least. I've done this with SAK's or scout knives for 40 years. That's why most of my "tacticals" and "folding hunting knives" spend most of their lives at home. For longer trips I grab my heavier Locksmith model SAK which adds a slightly longer locking knife blade and similarly long saw and file blades. If I'm hunting I'll add a folding hunting knife with a superior alloy blade and likewise a sheath knife optimised for my task. I won't bring a knife to chop or pry with. I'll have a hatchet and saw in the car for those purposes.
 
A knife's cutting ability is first and foremost. You'd be surprised at just how much even a small slip joint is capable of...if you know how to use it.

Paul
 
I like to think of my folding knives as slicers. My SERE 2K is about the "toughest" folder I own. For camping/hiking I carry my Swamp Rat Howling Rat. I have no qualms about beating the daylights out of that knife. It seems to thirst for it. (I also have Beckers) I think there are certain jobs that *can* be accomplished with a folder, but which *should* be solved with a fixed blade. A multi-tool is almost certainly more versatile than any folder anyway. (versatile <> tougher or even necessarily better...but...) and even then, compromise is the name of the game (in this instance for the sake of portability). To carry on the car analogy, it seems that some people want an H1 that will do 4 sec 0-60 times, and the quarter in 12...while still getting 40mpg, and let's face it, it's just not going to happen.

A smallish (<6") stout fixed blade, a sturdy (not necessarily bombproof) folder, and a solid multitool provide more potential than any singular solution, IMHO, and together would likely be less bulky than a 10" combat machete ;)

I'm just a "civilian" however, and have not had to fight tooth and nail through any Panamanian cartel fortresses to save children and rare albino foxes... :D But in my world, compromise is the name of the game. If I'm on my motorcycle, the multitool comes with. If I'm going to work, the multi-tool, and a number of quality folders come along. If I'm hiking/camping, then at least one fixed blade joins the mix, regardless of predicted timeline. Knowing how to use and care for the tools is nearly as important as possessing them.

Just my $0.02.

Regards,

Shaun.
 
I obviously stand closer to the knife purist side. Have I pushed knives beyond their intended use? Sure, lots of times. Do I purposefully buy knives with exaggerated blade thicknesses and grinds, just so I can use my knives for other purposes? Nope. The tradeoff in performance just isn’t worth it to me. I first and foremost want my utility knife to cut as well as possible under the widest variety of common circumstances. If a knife can handle more than that, it’s icing on the cake. But I don’t knowingly make large sacrifices in cutting efficiency, just to add non-knife uses to my knives. And I certainly don’t depend on my knives to perform non-knife uses. If the knife breaks when performing a non-knife duty with my knife, that’s my fault. I should have had a better tool for the job.

If this were 50 years ago, I’d have probably been content to go and buy another Case slipjoint until it also broke. But with today’s plethora of multitools and multifunction implements, I just don’t see much reason for the added abuse, much less to be obsessed with the idea.

One of my favorite little items is my Peter Atwood Prybaby Mini. It’ll scrape, pry, screw, unscrew, pop caps, and lift lids. It easily fits onto your key chain, and puts non-knife use in the able hands on a non-knife. It leaves little excuse for busting the tip off of your blade. If you want genuine durability and functionality for that “just in case” scenario we so love to talk about, the Prybaby will most likely be much more safe and useful than a thick bladed knife.

As far as hatchet use, I do prefer a hatchet to a knife. Call it my northern upbringing, but I always prefer a hatchet over a large knife for chopping wood. This is not to say that I’m beyond batoning a smaller fixed blade. I’m actually one of the larger proponents of baton use, as batoning can be both safe and effective, with little added stress to the knife. Some people might see baton use as abusive to a fixed blade, but generally it is not even close.

Heck, let’s look at the Swiss Army knife for a minute. All it takes to use a Swiss Army knife is a steady hand and a little brains. It’s the tool that does almost everything. And if it won’t do the job, it’ll probability be able to build a tool that will do the job.

I see an odd change in the knife buying industry. We are constantly inventing small portable tools to suit a variety of needs. We have Leatherman, Gerber, SOG, Victorinox, Wenger, and even a few custom knife makers. These small tools are exceptionally useful under a variety of circumstances. Yet there is a faction of the public, intent on sacrificing the cutting usefulness of their plain old knives, just to add a very small amount of multitool functionality. I just don’t see this as a reasonable goal, 95% of the time. You’d think that the makers and manufacturers would get the point by now, and start building higher quality multitools for the diehard and more discerning audiences. There are a few of them, but they largely have not been taken to the point where they are worthy of replacing our knives.
 
Knives are tools for whatever needs to be done with them, but the old expression "horses for courses" does apply to this as to most things in life. By this, I mean that some knives are better for certain jobs than others. I would not choose a large and heavy camp knife for picking a splinter or a thorn out of my finger, for instance, any more than I would use a small Wharncliff bladed penknife to clear a campsite and to cut and to split firewood. I am certain that any of you can think of any number of other, similar, situations where specific knife shapes or designs would work better than others, and, of course, there are situations where a good axe or hatchet will do a job better than any knife.
 
Hey Buzz,

Where can I get one of these Prybaby Mini's? I looked around some and can't find any mention of them. I'll trade you a yoyo for one ;)

thanks,

Rob
-if I only had a brain
 
Cuting first, and use it with care, but I´ve heard that if you don´t abuse your knife some you are not really using it.
 
Having been in the scouts and my duties in the Air Force as an instructor for jet engine mechanics I learned early on that you were more likly to do damage to you or what you were working on by not using the right tool for the job. If you don't have the right tool it is nobodys fault but yours.Your choice. I used to remind my students that if you use the wrong tool and screw up a $6 million dollar jet engine you just bought your self job security at least till that $6 million dollars was payed off.PS engines are significantly more now. I feel that MY body parts are worth much more than what ever I am working on so I will have the right tool or find one. I'm not losing body parts for any THING. :barf:
 
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