ZDP-189 is something I cannot get sharp. Any luck with powered setups?

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Jun 28, 2009
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The knife is my Endura. It is my only ZDP knife, so it could be just this blade. I can get all my other knives extremely sharp (tree topping, hair whittling, face shaving) with polished edges.

My waterstone progression is 220 -> 1000 then spyderco fine -> ultra fine. Always ending with a strop on some green compound.

I have had no issues with s30v, vg10, h1, and many softer kitchen knives and other blades.

I am reaching the edge, I create a burr, it is very sharp but not as sharp as I would like it.

I think I might need to get one of those DMT duo folds just for this knife.

Oh and the stone that gets the ZDP Endura the sharpest is the DC4 ceramic side, amazing stone.

At the moment the Endura is semi-tree topping sharp.

How has your experience with ZDP-189 been? How do you sharpen it? (I have asked this before, and was told to use water stones, so I bought a water stone, 220/1000 combo) Perhaps a 4/8k is required? I don't think I will be buying anymore stones, money will be saved for a powered setup.
 
From my experience ceramic will cause problems, waterstones are best for finishing and diamonds for grinding. You probably just need to spend more time with each step.
 
I find ZDP performs very well after every grit I have used (anything from 220 to 50,000). I would suggest that the grits you are using are not the problem.

some notes I have for ZDP are:
-The burrs can be problematic (a blade can hold onto a VERY small burr for a long time...act accordingly)
-This steel (more than any other I have tried) can not be forced. It will reward light pressure with an amazing edge, and punish the hamfisted sharpener with many unsuccessful hours at the hones).
-This steel polishes to an amazing luster but not without a significant investment of time.

I hate to ever say a steel is difficult to sharpen...but this particular steel will require the sharpener to do the job properly. No shortcuts can be taken (at least *I* have never gotten away with any).

Powered sharpeners will be faster...no doubt about that! But faster is not always better;) I am sure you have heard the warnings before, but any method that removes material faster means you can do a good job or a good bit of damage in very little time.
 
I have a Caly-3 in the laminate steel, with a ZDP-189 core. It came out beautifully on the EP, using the stock stone progression from 220-1000, then a Chosera 5k, and an 8k Snow White. It took a while, it's definitely more abrasion resistant than VG-10, but it came out ridiculously sharp and with a fairly decent polish on it. I could improve the polish with more work, though.
 
unit said:
I find ZDP performs very well after every grit I have used (anything from 220 to 50,000). I would suggest that the grits you are using are not the problem.

some notes I have for ZDP are:
-The burrs can be problematic (a blade can hold onto a VERY small burr for a long time...act accordingly)
-This steel (more than any other I have tried) can not be forced. It will reward light pressure with an amazing edge, and punish the hamfisted sharpener with many unsuccessful hours at the hones).
-This steel polishes to an amazing luster but not without a significant investment of time.

I hate to ever say a steel is difficult to sharpen...but this particular steel will require the sharpener to do the job properly. No shortcuts can be taken (at least *I* have never gotten away with any).

Powered sharpeners will be faster...no doubt about that! But faster is not always better;) I am sure you have heard the warnings before, but any method that removes material faster means you can do a good job or a good bit of damage in very little time.
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Indeed. ZDP is a fine cutlery steel, capable of amazing edges. But a considerable amount of patience is required to realize it's full potential.
 
Ben Dover said:
Indeed. ZDP is a fine cutlery steel, capable of amazing edges. But a considerable amount of patience is required to realize it's full potential.
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Agreed. I have a couple blades in ZDP and each has required more work than other steels. Lightening the pressure as you go up the grit scale works well. There is probably some logarithmic relationship to the number of strokes needed for each phase as compared to the grit size (and of course pressure has to be factored in along with blade thickness and bevel angle) but I suspect that you'll need roughly 2x, 4x, 6x and then 8x as many strokes with each progressively finer grit to receive the full benefit of each stone so the progression might look like this: 10 strokes at 220, 20 strokes at 1000, 120 strokes with fine, 240 strokes with xtra fine, 480 strokes with the strop. On the WE you can cycle as much as 160 strokes per minute (80 per side) and I'm sure with other guided devices you can do similar. If you're doing it freehand, it might take a little longer but it will pay off.
 
ZDP acted strangely for me. 120 grit DMT D8XX just skids on the surface, but the fine diamond cuts no problem at all, just slower.
Using 220 grit sandpaper was quickest, I could raise a burr in 3 strokes, but it was harder to remove micro chipping as I moved up in grits than other alloys,
and I had to spend more time on 1000.
To get hair whittling took some trial and error, and I noticed that a soft touch is imperative.
It seems ZDP needs an incredibly light touch on the strop. Like said above, any heavy handedness, and you get nowhere.
P.S. it seemed to regain that level sharpness from the strop almost immediately after heavy cardboard cutting, like within 5 (gentle) passes each side.
An interesting steel for sure.
 
I found ZDP-189 to be an easy steel to sharpen. Because it's so hard, the burr is pretty easy to remove.

Now, the edge retention is another story...
 
THG said:
I found ZDP-189 to be an easy steel to sharpen. Because it's so hard, the burr is pretty easy to remove.

Now, the edge retention is another story...
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In my rather limited experience with this steel, edge retention has been more than satisfactory, although certainly not comparable to CPM M-4 or S90V.

I should add that both of my ZDP blades are Spydercos. ZDP from other manufactrurers could be significantly different.
 
knifenut1013 said:
From my experience ceramic will cause problems, waterstones are best for finishing and diamonds for grinding. You probably just need to spend more time with each step.
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Knifenut,I was wondering what kind of problems you was seeing with ceramics?I use the sharpmaker medium,fine,ultrafine on my Shallot ZDP with good results.But like it has been said,a light touch is needed.
 
I found the same issue as I found with other high hardness steels and that was micro chopping. I really like ceramics for low alloy stainless and steels with higher ductility but high hardness steels with low ductility are problematic.

I like to use the right stone for the steel and from my experience ZDP and ceramics are not the best choice.
 
i sharpen a lot of knives made from all kinds of steel from simple carbon to the super steels using the paper wheels and i have no problem getting them all sharp. some get a little sharper than others but i have no problem getting them shaving sharp.

powered systems like the paper wheels can be used without messing up a knife if you practice first on some cheaper knives before moving on to more expensive knives. a lower rpm motor helps with control and removes metal a lot slower. you would have to press really hard in order to mess up a blade or not know what you are doing.

this past weekend i had a member come over and within 15 minutes i had him sharpening a recurve blade that i use when teaching someone how to sharpen on the wheels. a little more practice and he'll be doing much better.

you can get set up with a set of wheels for around $100. or cheaper if you have a 1/2 hp 1725 rpm electric motor. you can order a set from grizzly imports and have them shipped to you. i think a set of 3/4" wheels are under $50.

i sharpened a knife for this member and he was so impressed he bought a set and he lives in australia. here is a post he made in my paper wheel thread. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9207988&postcount=710
notice he had another knife sharpened that was done on diamonds and it did not fare too well.

from reading your post i would say removing the burr is your problem. you can get just the slotted wheel to use in place of the strop and improve your edges greatly no matter how the burr is worked up.

i was sent several scrap yard knives and a busse that felt sharp but still had a really fine burr that i could only see in sunlight. the burr was so fine it was hard to even feel. after a few passes on the slotted wheel the burr was gone and the knives were shaving sharp.
 
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ZDP sharpens up easier than S30V on my Worksharp. Strange? Maybe. Only steels that give me trouble are S90V, CTS-20CP, and S110V.
 
Interesting, the CTS-20CP didn't give me any problems other than taking a lot of time to sharpen; ZDP, however, I have also been unable to get as sharp as I like.
 
what got it that dull,some steels cant be let go to far before you need to resharpen,as you may be experiencing.
 
I just did my Miyabi 7000MC 8" Chef's Knife with ZDP-189 at Rc 66 on my Worksharp and a set of diamond strops. The edge can tree-top leg hairs and will cut free-hanging hair with no problem:thumbup:. Honestly, I've found steels with 3% or more vanadium to be harder to sharpen.
 
marcinek said:
That doesn't make a lick of sense. You are saying that some steels cut better when dull then other steels.
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Allow me to translate to English:

"What got it dull? If you let some steels get too dull, they can be difficult to resharpen, as you may be experiencing."
 
Along those lines, I would say that EVERY steel is easier to maintain if your maintenance program involves addressing concerns before they become CONCERNS. I think the same is true for most other tools, and even machines.

Simply put, "touching up" the edges on knives frequently will result in less frustration in your life regardless of steel type. I find that my knives last longer also.
 
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