ZDP-189 Steel

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frankrc

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
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Is ZDP-189 superior to VG-10? The reason I'm asking is because I would like to purchase a second Endura. It adds about $30.00 to the cost. Thanks, Frank
 
yes, it's a higher grade steel than vg 10. zdp holds an edge better than most other steels. RCH to 66-67 so it will take a little longer to sharpen but definitely worth it.
 
whether it is superior is subjective.

zdp is very hard and takes a very fine edge, and holds it for quite some time.

vg10 takes a very good edge, holds it well, and is very easy to sharpen. and it is much less expensive.

it also depends on the type of cutting you intend to do. if it is a work knife, and you will be cutting very abrasive materials like carpet, drywall, cardboard, etc, zdp may chip and frustrate you.

if it is like most of my knives, and cuts mostly soft materials like paper, cloth, and once in a while cardboard, then zdp will probably astound you with its edge retention.
 
Mark's got it right. :thumbup:

ZDP will take amazingly thin edges and hold them like you won't believe. 10 degree inclusive will blow you away with how sharp you can get it.

There's been reports that it's not as stainless as VG-10 (the massive amount of carbon eats up the chromium), and not as "tough". If you leave a standard 30 or 40 degree inclusive edge (15/20 per side) it's plenty tough and outstandingly sharp, but take it a lot thinner and you'll have a great slicer.

I highly recommend a Tom Krein regrind for the ZDP Endura.
 
frankrc said:
Is ZDP-189 superior to VG-10? The reason I'm asking is because I would like to purchase a second Endura. It adds about $30.00 to the cost. Thanks, Frank
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ZDP-189 is absolutely superior, but I seriously doubt if you, or anyone, needs a steel, in a folding pocket knife, that's superior to VG-10 .
 
That's a pretty bold statement shangchi.

Making such generalized statements about people you don't know, or have any idea what they do with their equipment kind of makes you look rather silly.
 
The Mastiff said:
That's a pretty bold statement shangchi.

Making such generalized statements about people you don't know, or have any idea what they do with their equipment kind of makes you look rather silly.
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Well, on reflection, I can see why you would say such a thing, but you must admit you're not a typical user. I guess I should say that most people don't have a need for super steel, but maybe you'd still disagree.
 
VG10 gets my vote. much easier to sharpen and more stainresistant, 2 attributes that are important to me. ZPD clipped to my pocket on a sweaty hike will rust....
 
spyken said:
VG10 gets my vote. much easier to sharpen and more stainresistant, 2 attributes that are important to me. ZPD clipped to my pocket on a sweaty hike will rust....
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That must be a lot of sweat on your thighs lol.
 
spyken said:
VG10 gets my vote. much easier to sharpen and more stainresistant, 2 attributes that are important to me. ZPD clipped to my pocket on a sweaty hike will rust....
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Will agree VG-10 is easier to sharpen and also think it is easier to learn how to sharpen well.

Realize a lot of factors, including body chemistry and the average temperature, humidity, and proximity to salt water of one's home all factor in to "ease of rusting" but I've carried both steels quite a bit and never had a rust issue with either one. I've treated both rather poorly in that I tend to rinse whatever knife I'm carrying off, shake it once or twice, close it, and stuff it back in my pocket. I have managed to stain both, by leaving mustard on them, but would not say it happened more easily with one than the other.

Paul
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ZDP will easily cut cardboard, blister packs, drywall (ask Yablanowitz who has done so with his Krein reground Endura all day at work) and most any other thing short of steel to without chipping (or anything worse than micro chipping on the most abrasive of stuff, easily taken out in a couple minutes by putting on a fresh microbevel). Any micro chipping you do get is likely to be no worse than VG-10, or the VG-10 would roll instead of microchip. You either don't know how to remove a burr or got a defective heat treat on your knife if your ZDP-189 knife doesn't stomp VG-10 at edge retention when cutting abrasive materials like carpet, drywall, and especially cardboard. If it was only tough enough to cut paper it would be a crap steel, not a super steel. My ZDP-189 knives have tremendous edge retention on cardboard, and will keep on cleanly slicing cardboard long after my VG-10 knives have started tearing the cardboard. My Krein reground Endura easily handled cutting carpet, cardboard, and drywall (though only limited drywall cutting) without blowing out it's thin edge during a remodel on my home earlier this year. I hate seeing disinformation like that put out when abrasive cutting is the main thing that ZDP-189 excels at. If you run too acute of an edge it may chip out on tough cutting, but I bet that edge will be much more acute than VG-10 could hold for cutting the same materials. I actually like VG-10 a lot, but when it comes to taking sharp, thin edges and holding that edge a long time ZDP-189 is far superior.

Mike
 
shangchi108 said:
Well, on reflection, I can see why you would say such a thing, but you must admit you're not a typical user. I guess I should say that most people don't have a need for super steel, but maybe you'd still disagree.
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I think "most people don't have a need for super steel" is a fair assesment. I don't think there are many people who use their knives hard enough to tell the difference between 440C and ZDP-189. Unfortunately for your earlier statement, there are some people who really do use their knives hard enough to need, or at least want, steel superior to VG-10, and this may be the most likely place in the world to run into them. ;)

I find ZDP-189 vastly superior to VG-10 for my use. It ranks second only to S90V of the steels I have tried. Yes, I admit my use is not typical. Yes, I believe that it is a waste of money for the average user, because the average user will never push it hard enough to appreciate it. In my opinion, if you have to ask if it is worth it, it isn't. But I would pay the extra without asking, hesitating or feeling buyer's remorse later.
 
I would think the average "non knife guy" would be the type of person best served by zdp-189 because it seems to stay sharp so long and many guys never bother to sharpen a pocket knife, course they would not spend the money on a zdp-189 knife.

I used to spend 12 hours a day in a factory cutting plastic, one of my best friends cuts carpet all day-neither are jobs that one would normally use a spyderco folder for, but assuming that most people don't use their knives much is kind of strange.
 
Eventually, even ZDP-189 will become dull. For those who never sharpen their pocketknives, the only difference between dull ZDP and dull 440A is the pricetag. The time it took to get that way will be lost in the time that it stays that way.
 
I would say that ZDP-189 is a better steel. It might or might not be worth it for your purposes. It really isn't worth it to me, but I like that it holds an edge longer. What I mean is that I don't NEED a knife that will hold an edge that ZDP does, but I like it to :)

As for rust/corrosion resistance: I have had no problems carrying my ZDP Endura on hot sweaty days.

As for ease of sharpening: it takes quite a bit longer to reprofile the blade compared to VG-10. After you're done with that, it's easy from there on. If I touch up on a DMT Fine stone after every use or two, I can get it back to shaving-sharp in about 10 minutes.

As for chipping: I have to say, I have experienced some slight microchipping after sessions of heavy cardboard cutting. I guess it's not a huge deal; they will come out eventually.

The bottom line is that if there is a knife out with ZDP-189 as a blade steel option, it is the one I would like to get over VG-10.
 
By now you have gathered that ZDP189 is definitely superior, but that VG10 is more than adequate for most everday use.

Let me add my 2c. I bought a Delica in ZDP189 in December and carried it daily, finding it "scary" sharp. Then I switched to a new VG10 Delica. After a few days I went back to the ZDP version as it felt sharper/better at cutting. I have many Spydercos, and the ZDP Delica is the only one that has drawn (my) blood, which is why I think even more highly of it.
 
yablanowitz said:
Eventually, even ZDP-189 will become dull. For those who never sharpen their pocketknives, the only difference between dull ZDP and dull 440A is the pricetag. The time it took to get that way will be lost in the time that it stays that way.
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I make a present to my friend with first Endura with Blue handle. It was if I remember fall 2005. Recently I offer him to sharpen it, but he ask me back - "Why? It is still sharp."

It depends on what is acceptable sharpness. I feel uncomfortable if knife can not cut top leather on my fingertip without drawing blood. (I get used to remove splinters this way). But for him after 4 years - it is still sharp!

Just recently I had to use plastic knife in cafeteria to cut some beef - it works for this reason just fine. In this regards for this kind of things no one need ZDP189 and plastic works just fine. But if you are spoiled with high sharpness - hair whittling sharpness like me, there is very few steel which cna reasonably long hold this sharpness and ZDP one of them (and most available I would say - thanks to Spyderco).

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
It depends on what is acceptable sharpness. I feel uncomfortable if knife can not cut top leather on my fingertip without drawing blood. (I get used to remove splinters this way). But for him after 4 years - it is still sharp!
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Exactly.
 
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