ZDP-189 vs ATS-34 and 440C

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radu1976

Joined
Sep 8, 2008
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I found this in the description of a knife from e-bay :

ZDP-189 is the best blade steel available for knives. With an incredible 3% carbon and 20% chromium, the knife has super edge retention and stain resistance. The Rockwell Harness of the edge is an incredible 68 Rc. At this harness, all other steels would chip, break, or downright shatter. But not ZDP-189. In fact, ZDP is no weaker than any of the other standard steels.

In comparison, ZDP-189 steel when tested cut through 100 pieces of 1" manila rope with the edge still cutting well. 440C only made 15 cuts, 154CM made 18 cuts, and D2 tool steel made 30 cuts. It is hands down the best blade steel on the market.

Is it such a huuuuge difference between the ZDP-189 and CM154 - ATS-34 ??
I mean if you cut soft stuff the ZDP blade would last 5 times more than an ATS-34 one before resharpening ??
 
radu1976 said:
I found this in the description of a knife from e-bay :

ZDP-189 is the best blade steel available for knives. With an incredible 3% carbon and 20% chromium, the knife has super edge retention and stain resistance. The Rockwell Harness of the edge is an incredible 68 Rc. At this harness, all other steels would chip, break, or downright shatter. But not ZDP-189. In fact, ZDP is no weaker than any of the other standard steels.

In comparison, ZDP-189 steel when tested cut through 100 pieces of 1" manila rope with the edge still cutting well. 440C only made 15 cuts, 154CM made 18 cuts, and D2 tool steel made 30 cuts. It is hands down the best blade steel on the market.

Is it such a huuuuge difference between the ZDP-189 and CM154 - ATS-34 ??
I mean if you cut soft stuff the ZDP blade would last 5 times more than an ATS-34 one before resharpening ??
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Things like - cut 5 times better meaningless IMHO. It depends on testing procedure and way of measuring sharpness. Yest ZDP is second in my edge retention test after Dozier D2 and ahead on 25 other steels I tested:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589139

It is huge difference between ZDP189 and other steels. However it depends a lot who did heat treatment.

Thanks, Vassili/
 
radu1976 said:
I found this in the description of a knife from e-bay :

ZDP-189 is the best blade steel available for knives. With an incredible 3% carbon and 20% chromium, the knife has super edge retention and stain resistance. The Rockwell Harness of the edge is an incredible 68 Rc. At this harness, all other steels would chip, break, or downright shatter. But not ZDP-189. In fact, ZDP is no weaker than any of the other standard steels.

In comparison, ZDP-189 steel when tested cut through 100 pieces of 1" manila rope with the edge still cutting well. 440C only made 15 cuts, 154CM made 18 cuts, and D2 tool steel made 30 cuts. It is hands down the best blade steel on the market.

Is it such a huuuuge difference between the ZDP-189 and CM154 - ATS-34 ??
I mean if you cut soft stuff the ZDP blade would last 5 times more than an ATS-34 one before resharpening ??
Click to expand...

A bit of Hype there. Not sure I'd call any steel the "best blade steel on the market". Different steels have different properties that make them optimal for different knives.

Certainly ZDP-189 has significantly better edge retention than 440C and 154CM. I am not certain that ZDP-189 has better edge retention than ANY other steel, but it does have extremely good edge retention.

ADDED THOUGHT: One of the properties in which ZDP-189 does not excel is "ease of sharpening".
 
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Idon't know of any manufacturer running their ZDP at RC68. RC67 is the highest I've heard of, most in the RC64 through 66 range. RC68 is high.

This whole description strikes me as wishfull thinking on the part of the seller, and I like ZDP. Joe
 
Don't always trust eBay. ;)

ZDP-189 is an excellent blade steel, especially for seasoned sharpeners who are able to maintain said knife themselves. That being said, it's not my personal favorite.

Nozh2002-Dozier D2 is some sweet stuff. :thumbup:
 
I found it easy to sharpen, it is hard and form smaller burn. I think people use something different then modern sharpeners to make it sharp - I have DMT and it works fine for all steel especially for top steel, which as ZDP also easier to sharpen then average or entry level steels.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
My take on ZDP, most definitely not easy to sharpen.
By sharpen, I mean touching up an edge.
Not profiling on diamonds.
I wouldn't expect a problem ZDP on DMTs either, but to say its easier than entry steels...
I would have to disagree. Entirely.
 
Since I am not made of money, Best has to include price. Unfortunately this is true of many if not most of us. Best to me is reasonable price, decent edge retention and reasonable east to sharpen. Like good 1095. D2 can be the best of both worlds like in the case of the Kershaw outcast and Knives of Alaska which are within the price range of most people who are willing to save a while for one and are mostly D2.
 
DRod said:
My take on ZDP, most definitely not easy to sharpen.
By sharpen, I mean touching up an edge.
Not profiling on diamonds.
I wouldn't expect a problem ZDP on DMTs either, but to say its easier than entry steels...
I would have to disagree. Entirely.
Click to expand...

I guess it is matter of terms. Using DMT Extra Fine I am calling sharpening (it is 1200 mesh or 9 micron (Spyderco fine ceramic is 6 microns) and using this hard to call reprofiling. Usually this is more them acceptable sharpness by most. After this I use Green Rouge on leather to polish it and make if hair whittling sharp.

Can you explain what exactely you mean by sarpening - may be you simple need some help?

I use ZDP-189 for everything - from cutting off top layer of my skin to take away splinters without drawin blood, to whittling aluminum corners, cutting dry walls - everything. And I will not do this if it is hard to resharpen.

It is one of the best steel on the market. It is not brittle and hold edge second after Dozier D2.

Entry level steels tends to create big flapping burr wich is easy to break of, so it is not really harder but recuire more attention then with top steels.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I guess it is matter of terms. Using DMT Extra Fine I am calling sharpening (it is 1200 mesh or 9 micron (Spyderco fine ceramic is 6 microns) and using this hard to call reprofiling. Usually this is more them acceptable sharpness by most. After this I use Green Rouge on leather to polish it and make if hair whittling sharp.

Can you explain what exactely you mean by sarpening - may be you simple need some help?

I use ZDP-189 for everything - from cutting off top layer of my skin to take away splinters without drawin blood, to whittling aluminum corners, cutting dry walls - everything. And I will not do this if it is hard to resharpen.

It is one of the best steel on the market. It is not brittle and hold edge second after Dozier D2.

Entry level steels tends to create big flapping burr wich is easy to break of, so it is not really harder but recuire more attention then with top steels.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

When someone says DMT I think of coarse diamond stones used to profile. In that sense, I find it understandable that ZDP and other steels are closer in terms of how easy it removes material. So that could be accredited to a misunderstanding. I don't use DMT for profiling. I use an India stone. But I rarely find the need to reprofile. I don't abuse my knives to that point. Of course there are times where the blade comes at a grind I don't care for, take the BM 943. That, I would consider profiling.
When I say sharpen, I mean throwing a blade on the fine Spyderco rods and bringing back a smooth hair popping edge. Thats what I mean. When I try to sharpen, in my term, one of my ZDP blades, it just doesn't work that well. Takes a pretty good while and is never as sharp as it was out of the box. With the exception of my ZDP Delica, it wasn't reallysharp out of the box, but after about an hour on the Sharpmaker, it was. It needs to be profiled too, the edge is really thick in it.
 
Vassili,
Did you ever test Diamond Blades, friction forged blades? I saw you had received one but didn't see it listed in your edge holding results??? Regards, Steve
 
fastevo said:
Vassili,
Did you ever test Diamond Blades, friction forged blades? I saw you had received one but didn't see it listed in your edge holding results??? Regards, Steve
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You know, their HQ is here in my town... I've emailed them but still haven't knocked on their door. I really do want to check them out though.
 
fastevo said:
Vassili,
Did you ever test Diamond Blades, friction forged blades? I saw you had received one but didn't see it listed in your edge holding results??? Regards, Steve
Click to expand...

It is #21 in my list. However if you see actual results (9th steel tested) it came to 8 oz after 20th cut and then stay this way up to the 200th. I may assume that it may stay this way much longer over 200 cuts. This is limitation of the test itself.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I have DMT and it works fine for all steel especially for top steel, which as ZDP also easier to sharpen then average or entry level steels.
Click to expand...

Did I read that right? You said that ZDP is easier to sharpen than entry level steel?
 
DRod said:
When someone says DMT I think of coarse diamond stones used to profile. In that sense, I find it understandable that ZDP and other steels are closer in terms of how easy it removes material. So that could be accredited to a misunderstanding. I don't use DMT for profiling. I use an India stone. But I rarely find the need to reprofile. I don't abuse my knives to that point. Of course there are times where the blade comes at a grind I don't care for, take the BM 943. That, I would consider profiling.
When I say sharpen, I mean throwing a blade on the fine Spyderco rods and bringing back a smooth hair popping edge. Thats what I mean. When I try to sharpen, in my term, one of my ZDP blades, it just doesn't work that well. Takes a pretty good while and is never as sharp as it was out of the box. With the exception of my ZDP Delica, it wasn't reallysharp out of the box, but after about an hour on the Sharpmaker, it was. It needs to be profiled too, the edge is really thick in it.
Click to expand...

I use same procedure for all my knives and does not see any difference for ZDP198. Usually to resharpen I use DMT D11E (1200 mesh 9 microns) and then Green Rouge. For first time and for damaged edge - like I cut roots in the sandy ground - of course I had few chips on my ZDP, bur less then I expected and less then on some other knives - it is almost abuse and I use it intentionally even for this task to see how it may stand it, and to justify for myself price I pay for it.

For damaged edge I use silent compact table grinder - DMT D8XX - extra extra coarse (120 Mesh 120 microns) then D11C (325 mesh 45 microns) and then agaiun D11E and Green Rouge.

So this procedure is same for all my knives and I have only trouble with Green Rouge being too soft for only two steels CPM S90V and CPM S110V - first is hard to make whittle hair, second - did not able to do this yet, have luck only once but keep hope that with 100000 mesh diamond powder I will be able to do this sometime.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
It is #21 in my list. However if you see actual results (9th steel tested) it came to 8 oz after 20th cut and then stay this way up to the 200th. I may assume that it may stay this way much longer over 200 cuts. This is limitation of the test itself.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

Thanks Vassili, I just overlooked it, I have been curious about their new folder, it may be worth a look..... Regards, Steve
 
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DRod said:
You know, their HQ is here in my town... I've emailed them but still haven't knocked on their door. I really do want to check them out though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you should stop by DB's headquarters and report back about their new folder!!!ol I would like to get one, but usually don't buy a knife until I see some write-up or feed back on Blade Forums..... Regards, Steve
 
fastevo said:
Yeah, you should stop by DB's headquarters and report back about their new folder!!!ol I would like to get one, but usually don't buy a knife until I see some write-up or feed back on Blade Forums..... Regards, Steve
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea. Its just down the road from the Perrin AFB Museum. My dad was stationed there back in the day and I've been meaning to truck him up there/here to check it out. I figure we could kill two stones with one trip. :)
Might actually do it while Im down here at their place. I'll get pics if Im up there this next week.

The HQ is on the flightline of the old air base.
 
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