ZDP-189 vs VG-10 vs 8CrMov13/AUS 8

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radu1976

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Sep 8, 2008
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I am interesting in knowing the differences as it's about holding the edge between those steels : ZDP-189 , S30V , VG-10 and 8CrMov13 .
If the bladeshape is identical and also the heat treating what would be the difference - HRC - between those steels when you make cuts in rope untill the blade needs to be resharpen ??
Let's say :
- 50 cuts for 8CrMov13
- 120 cuts for VG-10
- 180 cuts for the S30V steel
- 250 cuts for the ZDP-189 ?

Something like that , am I far from the truth ?
I know the Rockwell hardness rating for each steel BUT what's the difference in % when you cut the same type of rope ?
They said - for example - that , for earthquakes , on Richter scale , 1 degree more means twice as intensity but I am sure that it's not the same for knives .

Spyderco priced with 50% more the ENDURA/DELICA/STRETCH/DRAGONFLY ZDP-189 than the regular VG-10 versions but ... only 20% more for the LADYBUG ( 60$ vs 50$ MSPR ) ?!

I am wondering if you can do 50% more cuts - or 100% - with a ZDP-189 blade than with a VG-10 one .

Any input would be appreciated !
 
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Forget about 8Cr13MoV. You are better off without it. It is a simple worthless Chinese made steel.

Now, out of ZDP-189 AUS-8 and VG-10, I would say that ZDP takes the cake as in an all around better steel. But AUS-8 and VG-10 are excellent all around steels depending on the heat treat.
 
I would need numbers ... the line is well known ! Numbers to reflect the difference .
Will a ZDP-189 LADYBUG perform twice as much cuts than a LADYBUG VG-10 and 5-10 times more than a 8Cr13MoV FINCH ? Is that the difference ?
 
radu1976 said:
I would need numbers ... the line is well known ! Numbers to reflect the difference .
Will a ZDP-189 LADYBUG perform twice as much cuts than a LADYBUG VG-10 and 5-10 times more than a 8Cr13MoV FINCH ? Is that the difference ?
Click to expand...

ZDP will hold its edge longer than all the other steels you mentioned.
 
On this chart VG10 would show the same edge retention as 154CM.
8Cr13MoV performs the same as AUS8 in edge retention.

The chart is based on my testing of various alloys cutting manila rope. Some of the knives were borrowed. The ones that were mine I have used in every day use and have noted that the performance is about the same in every day use as I found in my testing.



bladesteel50Kview-1.jpg
 
Thank you for the last posts ! This is what I was looking for :thumbup:
So, it seems that 154CM / VG-10 is only 50% more efficient than the chinese 8Cr13Mov while the premium steel S30V is 2 times better while the ZDP-189 shows almost 3 times longer edge retention or almost twice as the VG-10 .
CPM M4 seems to play in a different league and , as far as I have read , CTS and S90V seem to be around there also .

I read somewhere that the VG-10 is very similar to 154CM and performs a 'hair better' .
I am really surprised to see the difference between CPM M4 / CTS and S30V , S30V which is considered a 'premium steel.
So a tan/green MANIX would cut 2.5 times more than an orange/GITD/blue one :eek: before it needs to be resharpened .
 
The results are more "order of magnitude" than exact percentages.
440C holds an edge noticeably better than AUS8. It's easily enough to notice in everyday use.
154CM/VG1/VG10/ATS-34 all hold an edge noticeably better than 440C.
S30V is better yet. D2 is maybe a bit better than S30V and ZDP-189 is better yet.

But CPM M4 and M390 are day and night different from the others.

I'm not certain that its possible to get actual percentages. What "needs sharpening" to one person is "good enough for now" to another.
 
knarfeng said:
The results are more "order of magnitude" than exact percentages.
440C holds an edge noticeably better than AUS8. It's easily enough to notice in everyday use.
154CM/VG1/VG10/ATS-34 all hold an edge noticeably better than 440C.
S30V is better yet. D2 is maybe a bit better than S30V and ZDP-189 is better yet.

But CPM M4 and M390 are day and night different from the others.

I'm not certain that its possible to get actual percentages. What "needs sharpening" to one person is "good enough for now" to another.
Click to expand...

That's really it, isn't it? I have found I like different steels for different tasks. I am no steel snob, so I go with what works for me.

For example, for cutting fiberglass shingles (asphalt/fiberglass/aggregagte) it doesn't seem to make any difference at all which knife I use. Even with just a few cuts in an emergency, the material eats up any edge on my work knives which are AUS8, 440C, 154CM, 420HC, D2 and S110V. I notice absolutely no difference at all, with the exception of the AUS8, which dulls quickly and then just stays dull. Over the long haul, it actually performs better than the other steels in that respect. The other metals can easily show small chips and rolls from the embedded aggregate and asphalt of the shingles.

Same with using them in sheetrock. AUS8, 420HC, D2 and 440C are my favorite go-to knives in my construction efforts. Don't kid yourself about AUS8; it can take a mean edge, it just can't hold it. It is easy enough to sharpen, though. Overall, I a liking D2 as the best of the bunch as it is easy to keep clean, only gets a speckle of rust from time to time, and is easy to sharpen. It holds a good edge.

I think these kinds of tests and results are good, but I would be using another set of criteria were it me looking at knives. (#1) would be "is this a good maker and can I trust the heat treat? I have an excellent Browning folding hunter I bought in the 80's that is in 440C. However, I bought several other knives at that time (remember when 440C was THE steel?) and they weren't anywhere near as good at holding an edge.

(#2) would be blade geometry and the intended use of the blade. If you are looking for a slicer, a good thin edge, perhaps even one hollow ground as will cut circles around most saber grinds. On the other hand, it won't do you much good to have a wicked shaving sharp knife in your paw when you need to cut heavy fiberglass load straps, etc. My S110V Shallot dulls much more quickly (even reprofiled!) than my D2 sodbuster when cutting that material. The soddie is a simple flat grind, and it hold its edge really well no matter what I use it for during the day.

Since I have no one grail knife, I carry a small knife in my pocket like a butterbean (1095) or mini canoe (an enormously hard AUS6), and a larger one to take the work abuse clipped to my pocket.

I don't have a clue on how to qualify or quantify the use of a steel outside of lab conditions, which are pretty useless to me. That's why I like some of the intelligent, "real world" tests we see on the forum from time to time.

Remember, buying a certain steel can be a good starting point, but it doesn't mean you bought a great knife.

Robert
 
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I can't find an answer anywhere. Does anyone know the HRC rating or range of Spyderco Delica 4 FFG in VG-10?
 
ak585479 said:
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I can't find an answer anywhere. Does anyone know the HRC rating or range of Spyderco Delica 4 FFG in VG-10?
Click to expand...

The old catalogs used to say 58 I think, but that was when they were still saber ground so its possible they were softened slightly for the less robust grind. Having had both versions in VG-10 (as well as most of the other flavors) I cannot tell a difference between the FFG and Saber versions with edge retention.
 
My 14c28n knives seem to have the same edge retention and ease of sharpening. I thought VG-10 topped the sandvik by quite a bit in edge retention? Much better than my 8cr's and aus-8's and Buck's though. But anyway I just like to have an idea of the hardness ratings of my blades
 
radu1976 said:
If the bladeshape is identical and also the heat treating what would be the difference - HRC - between those steels when you make cuts in rope untill the blade needs to be resharpen ??
Let's say :
- 50 cuts for 8CrMov13
- 120 cuts for VG-10
- 180 cuts for the S30V steel
- 250 cuts for the ZDP-189 ?
Click to expand...

When do you consider it time to resharpen? This will be a factor in how the steels relate to each other. I had a S30V blade and an 8CrMoV blade basically tie each other cutting cardboard. I've also made over 700 cuts on rope with a 5CrMoV (or similar) blade and it would still slice receipt paper. Your ability to sharpen these steels will make a huge difference.
 
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