ZT 0102, How do y'all feel about this 'hawk?

I guess it really depends on what you see yourself using the tool for. I looked at the specs and it seems like a great tactical axe...ya' know for breaching and hand to hand combat but how that translates into a working axe is beyond me. I guess if the handle were longer you might get some use out of the spike for dragging felled modestly sized logs but as it is I don't see that as being practical.

Be a great little conversation piece but for $400 in coin I can think of a lot of other things I'd rather talk about. Cripes, that's a decent quality used rifle, shotgun or very, very high quality custom knife. Any of those would definitely get more field time than the ZT breacher tool.

Just my .02...hope it comes across as helpful since that is the way it's intended.

Best to you whatever you decide.
 
Hi mako -

I hear you, the shorter hawk-type hatchets lack the weight needed for heavy duty chopping, but it still beats a knife and it is lighter than a full sized axe.

I purchased my first "tactical" hawk from JK Handmade Knives , my own design, and now I can't imagine going camping without taking along a small hawk.

I am planning on adding the ZT to my collection.

I like the ZT hawk, being a ZT / Kai fan, but more importantly, it looks like a good design that would be a good chopper and all around tool.

It is the higher end, Kershaw will also have a hawk that is at a lower price point.

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
Hi mako -

I hear you, the shorter hawk-type hatchets lack the weight needed for heavy duty chopping, but it still beats a knife and it is lighter than a full sized axe.

I purchased my first "tactical" hawk from JK Handmade Knives , my own design, and now I can't imagine going camping without taking along a small hawk.

I am planning on adding the ZT to my collection.

I like the ZT hawk, being a ZT / Kai fan, but more importantly, it looks like a good design that would be a good chopper and all around tool.

It is the higher end, Kershaw will also have a hawk that is at a lower price point.

best

mqqn
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Good to know. Small hatchet's have their place no doubt about it however I've only used them for quartering game...not around the camp. Nothing works better than a stout hatchet for popping joints or separating large portions for field transport.

Compliments aside though... $400 (or so since that's MSRP) seems pretty damn steep for something designed to be rough and tumble. I've mentioned it before but it seems pertinent... I use a Schrade SCAXE 2L 2lb axe (newer version @ 16" length) for lots and lots of stuff both around the camp, around downed game and especially for tent pegs or similar. Once you start getting down around 12" or less in length I would have to sign on for a field lesson. No doubt you find value in it and kudos for that...you just need to teach me the same :thumbup:

Good conversation...
 
Yea - I paid over $300 for my own design with 01 steel and micarta handle scales.

The ZT has Vanadis 4 Extra, which will contribute to cost, plus DLC coating and G10 - all premium materials and treatments.

It is also 16 inches - I know when John was getting the materials for my DBH, he said just the 01 steel alone was almost $100, which I was a little surprised to find out!

I don't think we as knife hobbyists always appreciate the raw material costs, let alone the labor costs.

Excellent comments regarding field dressing - those are great observations regarding a potential use that I had not thought about!

best

mqqn
 
Again with the "hole in the head" design. Outside of a very lazy and cheap way to shave weight off the design, I would love for someone to tell me the benefit of this. The cutout or "hole" in the head on a breaching or tactical type hawk is serves no purpose other than a great opertunity for the hawk to get hung up in the material its cutting, breaching or chopping through.
 
Good points on the hole in the head.

It is not for cost savings, so it has to be for lightening the head and balancing the tool I would surmise.

With a 16" handle, I would expect that one with a little grip strength could fairly easily leverage the head of this hawk out of whatever media was soft enough to allow the head to penetrate to that extreme.

Just thinking out loud here - that is a valid concern, but I think the ergonomics of the hawk would prevent any problems.

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
Good points on the hole in the head.

It is not for cost savings, so it has to be for lightening the head and balancing the tool I would surmise.

With a 16" handle, I would expect that one with a little grip strength could fairly easily leverage the head of this hawk out of whatever media was soft enough to allow the head to penetrate to that extreme.

Just thinking out loud here - that is a valid concern, but I think the ergonomics of the hawk would prevent any problems.

best

mqqn
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You've returned the favor regards mentioning something new...I had not thought about the hatchet with it's one piece design/build. If it does get used for modest splitting and felling of smaller trees and/or brush it would be a solid idea for rugged single piece construction. The biggest drawback I have with Hickory or Ash handles is when they stick in the log. Naturally, we want to rock it up/down and back/forth to release it which all shortens the life of the Handle connection quickly. We all know that's doing this is a no-no but sometimes it happens without thinking.

With all steel construction it's still probably not a great idea but it will Shirley ( ;) ) take way more abuse the a stick of lumber.

Good point...thank you.
 
I wouldn't drop that much coin on that design. It seems like a good hawk, but for 400 bananas I'd much rather get one from omnivore bladeworks, simply because I trust the design more and the hole in the head is circular.
 
Also, the ZT suffers from being fairly heavy at its size, as well as the issue of the handle sitting well into the chopping path which obstruct a lot of types of work. If you like it a lot, then it's probably worth it though, just my $.02
 
rxavage said:
http://zt.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/zt0102

I do not yet own an axe or tomahawk but I am looking for something the is quality and reliable. I came across the zt102 and thought to myself this is it, but I know next to nothing about axes/hawks.
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What you featured is just another fashion toy. Axes (and some hatchets) are meant to do work and you have to decide what it is you plan to do with whatever it is you buy. If you're heating/cooking with wood and are counting on something like this (any sort of 'hawk') to cut and split cordwood then this upcoming winter is going to be miserable for you. If throwing it at a sheet of plywood is the main objective then start cheap and gradually work your way up.
 
For the price I suggest you skip eating out a couple times and go for an RMJ. They are proven and if you get buyers remorse they hold their value for resale.
I am a ZT fan-but that hawk for that price. . . .
 
Just keep in mind that we don't know the street price - MAP will be 80% of the MSRP.

I could not find a price on the Vanadis 4 Extra, which the 102 is made from, but it is much higher quality steel than the 4140 that RMJ is using, and considerably more expensive, where RMJ is selling their "elite tactical" hawks for $425 MSRP for an engineering steel as compared to an honest to goodness tool steel.

You have to weigh what is valuable to you. I can't wait to get my hands on a 102, but everyone has their own wants and needs of course.

best

mqqn
 
It looks like a Gil Hibben hallucination of what a display fantasy hawk would look like on planet Claire.Not something I would want but ZT makes dang good stuff so it has that going for it.
 
I could not find a price on the Vanadis 4 Extra, which the 102 is made from, but it is much higher quality steel than the 4140 that RMJ is using, and considerably more expensive, where RMJ is selling their "elite tactical" hawks for $425 MSRP for an engineering steel as compared to an honest to goodness tool steel.
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I personally have a difficult time understanding the steel choice in this hawk. Vanadis 4 extra is a high carbide steel with a high carbon content. It can have great wear resistance and can be hardened well past 60 hrc. However, high carbide, high carbon steels are more prone to fracture than many other options. A tomahawk that is advertised as an entry and obstacle removal tool may encounter very hard materials (car doors, concrete, drywall, wooden crates with nails, etc.) that can put huge stress on the blade. High abrasive wear resistance may be very useful in knives, but toughness is important for edge retention in a tomahawk.

I would argue that an extremely tough steel like 4140 is superior to Vanadis 4 extra for this specific use. A RMJ hawk is also differential heat treated so that the edge is 55 hrc and the handle is 30 hrc. This gives it enough hardness to resist deformation at the cutting edge while ensuring that high stress areas are very tough.

I am also dubious about the spike design. It is more of a secondary blade than a spike, and the tip of it looks rather fragile.

I do have to admit that it looks awesome though.
 
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Hi d2k -

From my reading on Vanadis 4 Extra, since I don't have any first hand experience with it, is that it is highly chip resistant at higher hardnesses, and is a great choice for high-impact applications.

It may very well be overkill for an application like a hand tool, but some people like overkill; we see that a lot in our general hobby.

4140 is listed as a medium carbon steel, with .38 t0 .43 %C, and it is generally used in things like car springs, screwdrivers, hand tools etc.

The Vanadis has 1.40% c and is listed as a high strength, highly impact resistant tool steel that is specified for applications where "highly adhesive wear and chipping are the dominating failure mechanisms".

I also can't say if ZT will be differentially heat treating these hawks since I have not seen anything about that, but I will certainly ask the question next time I have the chance.

Thanks for your reply, and now I have been looking at RMJ hawks - I have to stop reading posts at this place. ;^)

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
Good points on the hole in the head.

It is not for cost savings, so it has to be for lightening the head and balancing the tool I would surmise.

With a 16" handle, I would expect that one with a little grip strength could fairly easily leverage the head of this hawk out of whatever media was soft enough to allow the head to penetrate to that extreme.

Just thinking out loud here - that is a valid concern, but I think the ergonomics of the hawk would prevent any problems.

best

mqqn
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But as a breaching/extrication tool, the extra seconds it takes to leverage the hole out of the material could be literally the difference between life and death. The head hole is simply a cheap way to lose weight. It takes it off from the worst possible area in a chopping tool, but because it's the most singularly massive area, it's the least likely to suffer a catastrophic failure due to the missing material. The two companies that I see the most in the hands of troops are RMJ and ATC. They are proven tools, and neither has engineered holes into the head. The single most used axe for emergency use has to be the fireman's axe. Again, no hole in the head. That says something, IMO.
 
why there is a hole on head ?
why there is a squre handle on it ?
why use V4E and say it is tough ?
tough than what impacting steel out here ?

why why why ?:D
 
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