ZT 0450 VS. Kizer Gemini VS. LionSteel G-10 TRE

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Feb 4, 2016
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My birthday is the last week of May and I'm looking for a smaller titanium flipper. My wife set a limit of $200 which I can go slightly over if needed. I've narrowed my search down to these 3 knives and I cant make up my mind! Is the M390 steel on the TRE enough to make it the better choice or is EveryDayCommentary right and the Gemini is the best flipper in the price range or is ZT's flawless production the way to go?! :confused:
 
I personally like the looks of the ZT the most. I'm sure all are great, but ZT/Kershaw is a company we all know and love.
 
I just picked up the ZT0450CF. It's a great little knife. It' very smooth and fast. ZT does a really nice job with the carbon fiber. That's the one I would pick.
 
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For the smallest and most narrow for light pockets or dress pants, the ZT could be a real winner. But heck, you couldn't go wrong with any of those three. The 450 is very smooth and with such a light thin blade, absolutely rockets out once detent is broken.

But those Kisers, wow, the action is like the blade pivots on glass. I have a Gemni in a shopping cart that I still haven't completed. But do have three KI3452's, that have bumped my zt450 out of a pocket for now (for thin and light office carry).

I don't have any Lion's just yet, but really need to try one soon.





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People are Strange, When You're a Stranger....
 
I really like my 0450CF. It's definitely one of my favorite EDC knives. It's seen the majority of my EDC use since I got it (and the original 0450 was one of my most used before that). I haven't handled the Gemini or TRE, although both designs do look pretty nice as well.
 
I have never owned any of the other knives but I do have the ZT450 and it is a very cool little knife. It is small and compact and has a great flipper. It is one of the sharpest knives I have ever received. I don't know your size limits but if you go just a little bit heavier, look at the ZT 0808. I had never been a big ZT fan because all their knives seemed so hulking. The 0808 is all titanium and weighs a bit more than the 450 but it is such a great and satisfying knife. I bought the 450 because I had been to impressed with the 0808. Either way you won't be disappointed but if you want the coolest of the two (my opinion) get the ZT0808.
 
I've owned all three and my choice is the TRE. I prefer the combination of smaller, lighter, more useful grind, and better steel as compared to the others.

0450 is pretty and flips strongly (if you don't put any pressure on the lock), but the grind is inferior with the shallow flat grind. You end up splitting instead of slicing things.

The Gemini is pretty and flips like a dream, but has an inferior detent (I could shake it open) and the smooth bead blasted sides were prone to unsightly scratches. And the clip is terrible in my opinion. Can't put my finger on exactly why, but it was always a hot spot.

These are very nit picky reasons to put any of these three knives down, but those are the reasons why in the end, I kept the TRE and sold the others.
 
The ZT 0450 is a very short knife. If you have small hands, you might be able to use it. I liked the knife, but couldn't hold onto it, as it's so short...similar to a small Sebenza. Just be careful. I buy/prefer folders that have a closed length of about 4.7".
 
I picked up the zt0450 Ti about 6 weeks ago, and love it. Saying this thing flips fast is an understatement. I really like the blade geometry, too.
 
Looks like ZT wins here.
Another vote for The 0450 or 0450CF both are good.
 
I'm kind of in the same boat except I already own a ZT 0450 but am considering adding a LionSteel TRE. I like everything about the 0450 but, as mentioned above, the hefty blade is more of a chopper than a slicer. I want to grab a sub 3" blade with a finer grind and am trying to talk myself into the TRE.
 
A few more pics couldn't hurt. Right? Anyway, here is 1.5 of the original three listed. ZT0450, ZT0808, and Kizer Ki3452. The overall thinest and lightest go to ZT450 & Kizer. The ZT808 is a bit heavier, but for that you get a thicker frame/handle giving very good purchase, also thicker blade stock at the spine.

But must disclose that my Kizer kicked my 450 out of a pocket for smaller secondary blade. (I usually have a larger folder in another pocket ). The 450 has amazing tolerances, and just functions flawlessly. But I can't get enough flipping that darn Kizer. Such a unique glassy action...a big reason two of my kids asked for one of their own....and ended up modifying the shopping cart with a couple more. Some of you may know how that works. Daughter snuggles up, works up the puppy face, and say's "Daddy, I would really really love to have a knife like that". Yup, I'm a pushover.
So, for now, I'd say the Kizer is my current favorite. This is a slightly different model than the Gemini listed in the OP, but I would think they are very similar in construction, fit/finish, and action. So very sweet for a light, thin, good looking Gentleman's folder that could no doubt handle so much more. And it's just a tad larger frame/scale that allows a little more purchase with grip.

From there, deciding between the 450 & 808, 450 has the thinnest, lightest going for it. So the 450 may have the edge if wearing light duty slacks or otherwise. The 808 for small blade heavy duty uses. But both are really sweet for their own purposes. The 808 would feel at home on a construction site, just as well as the office.

Well, here's some comparison pics.

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People are Strange, When You're a Stranger....
 
I just sold my 450cf. It was a great little knife, but just didn't fit my hands. I found it difficult to get a good grip on it when flipping it open. Too bad, as I love the design.
 
ZT0450 America!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::D
 
I own a LionSteel TRE G10, a Kizer Gemini (both the Bladesmith and Vanguard versions) and an original ZT0450 that I've modified with a carbon fiber scale. Let me break down each knife for you with my thoughts.

LionSteel TRE G10 is probably my least favorite knife of the three, but these are three of my favorite knives out of the ~360 folders I own. When I place this in third place, it's still better than around 325 other knives. From a materials standpoint alone, the TRE should win hands down. The M390 steel is theoretically better than the S35VN on both other knives. The G10 on the presentation scale is nicely milled to provide a bit extra needed traction. The knife fits well in hand, although I'd say it might be a bit on the small side if you have medium-large hands. The blade has a very utilitarian drop point profile with a full flat grind and a nicely rounded blade spine. It really is a remarkably executed knife...with one exception: it's not a fantastic flipper. I think when LionSteel designed the TRE they pushed the envelope of innovation, but perhaps too far. Designing a knife that can deploy by flipper or thumb disc ended up being a compromise. The G10 versions are decent flippers as they were made with fixed flipper tabs, and I understand they've improved the full, convertible TRE models...but a lightweight flipper needs to flip. There should to be a blur of blade motion followed by a satisfying lock sound. The TRE G10 is kind of a lazy flipper, unless you give it a little wrist.

The ZT0450 probably would have been in second place, maybe even third, until I made a modification to mine. As it is, it's now my favorite of the three so we'll come back to this one.

The Kizer Gemini is an incredible knife. What Kizer has done in these collaborations with American knife designers like Ray Laconico is simply amazing. The blade shape is a highly functional full flat grind on a classic drop point. I think the Kizer is probably the best slicer of the three. It definitely is THE best stock condition flipper of the three. The blade fires out and locks securely with almost mechanical precision. The sculpted Ti handle slabs fit very well in hand, in fact this would be the best option of the three if you had a larger hand; the other two would be just too small. Logically, the knife should be ranked number 1 but unfortunately I find it boring. The knife world has become so flooded with blasted or stonewash gray Ti framelocks, I almost don't want to look at any more. This knife is so excellent it deserves some special treatment: scale options, blade finishes, custom hardware...anything to change the drab appearance. The blue hardware helps a little, but not much. Everyone and their brother is using colored hardware these days. So there it is. The Kizer Gemini is the best knife of the three but loses out due to a boring and overused appearance genre. The knife screams "pimp me"...and maybe I will.

Now the enigma of the ZT0450. I got mine shortly after release and liked it quite well. When the 0450 first released, it got a fair amount of negative response. Many people had trouble deploying the blade effectively. I suspect that those people who had trouble with the blade got rid of them and moved on. This helps with the much more positive response from 0450 owners now. The handle is so slender, one must be very careful to not apply pressure to the lockbar when deploying. Some people just couldn't adapt to the modified grip, others did and came to love the knife. I only bring this up because the 0450 is a knife that can be a miss for some people. Please be forewarned if you happen to be one of those.

The slender blade profile and high (rather than full) grind make it the least effective slicer in the bunch. Nevertheless, it's still a great slicer. The narrow handle might be uncomfortable for long term cutting tasks, but it's deceptively long allowing a full four finger grip. It suffers the same, tired "Ti Framelock Flipper" look as the Gemini but only to a degree. The sweeping lines of the 0450 keep it interesting. I really liked my 0450, but I wasn't in love until I changed out the scale. I pulled the Ti presentation scale and added a matte finish CF scale. Then I replaced the clip with the deep carry clip from the 0560/0561 series and I fell in love. Swapping scales shed only a little over half an ounce, but somehow that made a huge difference in the entire feel and balance of the knife. With the deep carry clip, it disappears weightlessly in dress pants, yet can clip securely to jeans or cargo shorts. I'm not sure how it happened, but changing out the scale made the knife a BETTER flipper. It's now one of my best, better than the Gemini and equal to some of my Reates. This little ZT0450 is now one of my favorite 5 knives and I'd replace it if I ever had to.

Of course, you can pick up a ZT0450CF, but that one just doesn't do it for me. I'm almost as sick of Blackwash knives as I am of plain Ti framelock flippers! YMMV, of course but here's what I suggest...

Grab a ZT0450 from USA Made Blade. Pick one of their free, anodized models to personalize your blade. As soon as able, add a CF scale from Nyfestyles and never look back. As soon as you can after that, pick up a Kizer Vanguard Gemini if you've never tried one of their excellent offerings.

Sorry this was so long, but I had a lot to say about each of these knives!.
 
I own a LionSteel TRE G10, a Kizer Gemini (both the Bladesmith and Vanguard versions) and an original ZT0450 that I've modified with a carbon fiber scale. Let me break down each knife for you with my thoughts.

LionSteel TRE G10 is probably my least favorite knife of the three, but these are three of my favorite knives out of the ~360 folders I own. When I place this in third place, it's still better than around 325 other knives. From a materials standpoint alone, the TRE should win hands down. The M390 steel is theoretically better than the S35VN on both other knives. The G10 on the presentation scale is nicely milled to provide a bit extra needed traction. The knife fits well in hand, although I'd say it might be a bit on the small side if you have medium-large hands. The blade has a very utilitarian drop point profile with a full flat grind and a nicely rounded blade spine. It really is a remarkably executed knife...with one exception: it's not a fantastic flipper. I think when LionSteel designed the TRE they pushed the envelope of innovation, but perhaps too far. Designing a knife that can deploy by flipper or thumb disc ended up being a compromise. The G10 versions are decent flippers as they were made with fixed flipper tabs, and I understand they've improved the full, convertible TRE models...but a lightweight flipper needs to flip. There should to be a blur of blade motion followed by a satisfying lock sound. The TRE G10 is kind of a lazy flipper, unless you give it a little wrist.

The ZT0450 probably would have been in second place, maybe even third, until I made a modification to mine. As it is, it's now my favorite of the three so we'll come back to this one.

The Kizer Gemini is an incredible knife. What Kizer has done in these collaborations with American knife designers like Ray Laconico is simply amazing. The blade shape is a highly functional full flat grind on a classic drop point. I think the Kizer is probably the best slicer of the three. It definitely is THE best stock condition flipper of the three. The blade fires out and locks securely with almost mechanical precision. The sculpted Ti handle slabs fit very well in hand, in fact this would be the best option of the three if you had a larger hand; the other two would be just too small. Logically, the knife should be ranked number 1 but unfortunately I find it boring. The knife world has become so flooded with blasted or stonewash gray Ti framelocks, I almost don't want to look at any more. This knife is so excellent it deserves some special treatment: scale options, blade finishes, custom hardware...anything to change the drab appearance. The blue hardware helps a little, but not much. Everyone and their brother is using colored hardware these days. So there it is. The Kizer Gemini is the best knife of the three but loses out due to a boring and overused appearance genre. The knife screams "pimp me"...and maybe I will.

Now the enigma of the ZT0450. I got mine shortly after release and liked it quite well. When the 0450 first released, it got a fair amount of negative response. Many people had trouble deploying the blade effectively. I suspect that those people who had trouble with the blade got rid of them and moved on. This helps with the much more positive response from 0450 owners now. The handle is so slender, one must be very careful to not apply pressure to the lockbar when deploying. Some people just couldn't adapt to the modified grip, others did and came to love the knife. I only bring this up because the 0450 is a knife that can be a miss for some people. Please be forewarned if you happen to be one of those.

The slender blade profile and high (rather than full) grind make it the least effective slicer in the bunch. Nevertheless, it's still a great slicer. The narrow handle might be uncomfortable for long term cutting tasks, but it's deceptively long allowing a full four finger grip. It suffers the same, tired "Ti Framelock Flipper" look as the Gemini but only to a degree. The sweeping lines of the 0450 keep it interesting. I really liked my 0450, but I wasn't in love until I changed out the scale. I pulled the Ti presentation scale and added a matte finish CF scale. Then I replaced the clip with the deep carry clip from the 0560/0561 series and I fell in love. Swapping scales shed only a little over half an ounce, but somehow that made a huge difference in the entire feel and balance of the knife. With the deep carry clip, it disappears weightlessly in dress pants, yet can clip securely to jeans or cargo shorts. I'm not sure how it happened, but changing out the scale made the knife a BETTER flipper. It's now one of my best, better than the Gemini and equal to some of my Reates. This little ZT0450 is now one of my favorite 5 knives and I'd replace it if I ever had to.

Of course, you can pick up a ZT0450CF, but that one just doesn't do it for me. I'm almost as sick of Blackwash knives as I am of plain Ti framelock flippers! YMMV, of course but here's what I suggest...

Grab a ZT0450 from USA Made Blade. Pick one of their free, anodized models to personalize your blade. As soon as able, add a CF scale from Nyfestyles and never look back. As soon as you can after that, pick up a Kizer Vanguard Gemini if you've never tried one of their excellent offerings.

Sorry this was so long, but I had a lot to say about each of these knives!.

I have also had all three, and I agree with this 100%. I too purchased a matte finish CF scale for my 0450 (before they announced the 0450CF), and it changed the knife completely. Along with the blackwash deep carry clip ZT will send you for free, the knife looks and feels awesome.

The TRE is my least favorite, and the only one I sold. It just didn't work for me in my hand, and the flipper was very uncomfortable.

I carry the Gemini clipless and it's like a smooth stone in my pocket. I love this knife, and I actually carry it more than my 0450 (but mostly because I'll carry the Mantra2 over the 0450). There is something a little cramped about the 0450 handle for me, and the Gemini (and the Mantra2) doesn't have that issue for me.

The 0452cf is an absolutely perfect knife IMO, but probably much larger than you are looking for.
 
i second the notion that the 0450 has kind of a thick grind. also it was sort of short for my hands. so my vote goes to the gemini.
 
I wanted so badly to love the TRE g10, but the flipping action on the three different ones I owned absolutely sucked compared to the 0450.
Heck, even a Skyline flips better on washers than the TRE g10 does on bearings.
I've never owned the Kizer, but I would absolutely recommend the ZT if you like a flipper that opens with authority.
The 0450cf is even more awesome...
 
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