ZT 0454 Question

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The ZT0454 is constructed of CPM D2 on the cutting edge and spine and 14C28N stainless steel that runs through the middle of the blade. I'm assuming that the 14C28N stainless steel is incorporated into the blade not only for cosmetic reasons but also to increase the blade's overall strength. Generally speaking, however, harder alloys are sandwiched BETWEEN a layer or layers of softer alloys to increase blade strength. That's not the case with the 0454. So my question is whether my assumption is correct. Does the 14C28N that runs through the center of the 0454's blade really add strength to the blade or is it there primarily to create visual interest?
 
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14C is used with CB technology primarily because it marries well with premium steels from a HT standpoint. Additionally it can add contrast, as its finish is not changed should an etch be needed on a specific project.
 
Got it. So if I read your comment properly, 9blades is essentially correct. Nice looking knife, by the way. :)
 
Got it. So if I read your comment properly, 9blades is essentially correct. Nice looking knife, by the way. :)

At which point it seems you're not reading the comment properly. The primary reason, and this has been expressed to me personally as well by the people at Kai, is the ability for it to work together with other steels for the welding and subsequent heat treating, considering that after the steels are welded, they must be hardened together.

The aesthetic results are an additional component to the choice of steel.
 
The primary reason, and this has been expressed to me personally as well by the people at Kai, is the ability for it to work together with other steels for the welding and subsequent heat treating, considering that after the steels are welded, they must be hardened together.

The aesthetic results are an additional component to the choice of steel.
This would be a correct understanding.
 
At which point it seems you're not reading the comment properly. The primary reason, and this has been expressed to me personally as well by the people at Kai, is the ability for it to work together with other steels for the welding and subsequent heat treating, considering that after the steels are welded, they must be hardened together.

The aesthetic results are an additional component to the choice of steel.
No, I understand that properly. What I really wanted to know is, had the blade been made completely out of CPM-D2, would it have possessed less strength than in its current configuration. If I've read KAI Corp's statements properly, the answer to that question is no.
 
It's been posted here in the past that CB blades vs solid blades show little to no differences in strength/destruction testing.
 
Right. So I return to the proposition that 9blades statement is essentially correct. There being no physical advantage in having incorporated 14C28N in the blade, the reason for doing so has to lie elsewhere.
 
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to create an argument here. It's just that Kershaw states that the purpose of creating composite blades is to ". . . enable Kershaw to use premium steel designed for edge retention on the blade’s cutting edge and steel designed for strength along the spine." What confuses me is that the 0454 appears to deviate from this purpose by using the same "premium steel designed for edge retention " on a portion of its spine as it does on its edge. That doesn't make any sense to me, and that's why I asked my question. Add to that Kai Corp's statement that "CB blades vs solid blades show little to no differences in strength/destruction testing" and Kershaw's entire statement concerning the purpose behind creating composite blades gets thrown into question.

The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced 9blades got it right! :)
 
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to create an argument here. It's just that Kershaw states that the purpose of creating composite blades is to ". . . enable Kershaw to use premium steel designed for edge retention on the blade’s cutting edge and steel designed for strength along the spine." What confuses me is that the 0454 appears to deviate from this purpose by using the same "premium steel designed for edge retention " on a portion of its spine as it does on its edge. That doesn't make any sense to me, and that's why I asked my question.
It seems you understand there is CB evolution here, but want to use the standard CB definition to ask the why question. What can I do to assist you with understanding further?
 
To be honest with you, I wasn't aware that there was a CB evolution going on. Had I known that, I probably wouldn't have asked my opening question.

You've been extremely helpful in clearing things up for me. I think I've got all I need to know now. Thanks. :)
 
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Would it also help lower the price? Also, regardless, it looks cool, no doubt the quality is even better, i just cant wait for it to come out and there to be vids on it. Sorry if this post is of no rlevance, im not educated on this but i like the subject...
 
Normally, fewer parts and processes translate to lower manufacturing costs. But you are correct. Price was not a part of my original question and isn't really relevant to this discussion.
 
Bld522, this is really simpler than it appears. Composite blades offer a cool factor, and they are a patented feature that no other knife company offers. As steel technology progresses, we have run up against some boundaries as heat treat is concerned. However, we have demonstrated before that a composite blade is effectively as strong as a one-piece blade. We have tested them to the point of failure, and we are confident in the durability of the finished components.

One of the great advantages of this technology is that it allows you to make your cutting edge out of a hot new super steel and the rest of the carriage from an affordable, tough, material. Will the toughness of that second material ever really come into play? Probably not. But that blade is just as strong a a one-piece blade, so who cares? You will never use all the strength of Carbon fiber when you make a folding knife handle out of it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use it.

When I described the three-piece blade of the 0454 to people at blade show, I said up front that the piece of D2 on the spine was just there for looks. It created a unique look on a really cool knife, and people like it. The blade isn't any weaker for having that extra piece of D2 welded in, so there's really nothing to worry about here.

When it really comes down to it, composite blades are cool. Maybe someday we'll marry a 14C28N spine with a cutting edge made from some $300/pound über steel, and we'll see some really serious cost savings over a solid blade. But as it stands right now, they are a unique and exclusive way to make a cool blade for a high end knife. We will continue to develop this technology and to advance it. And as Forrest Gump once said, "That's all I have to say about that".
 
Bld522, this is really simpler than it appears. Composite blades offer a cool factor, and they are a patented feature that no other knife company offers. As steel technology progresses, we have run up against some boundaries as heat treat is concerned. However, we have demonstrated before that a composite blade is effectively as strong as a one-piece blade. We have tested them to the point of failure, and we are confident in the durability of the finished components.

One of the great advantages of this technology is that it allows you to make your cutting edge out of a hot new super steel and the rest of the carriage from an affordable, tough, material. Will the toughness of that second material ever really come into play? Probably not. But that blade is just as strong a a one-piece blade, so who cares? You will never use all the strength of Carbon fiber when you make a folding knife handle out of it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use it.

When I described the three-piece blade of the 0454 to people at blade show, I said up front that the piece of D2 on the spine was just there for looks. It created a unique look on a really cool knife, and people like it. The blade isn't any weaker for having that extra piece of D2 welded in, so there's really nothing to worry about here.

When it really comes down to it, composite blades are cool. Maybe someday we'll marry a 14C28N spine with a cutting edge made from some $300/pound über steel, and we'll see some really serious cost savings over a solid blade. But as it stands right now, they are a unique and exclusive way to make a cool blade for a high end knife. We will continue to develop this technology and to advance it. And as Forrest Gump once said, "That's all I have to say about that".
Thanks, Jim. My confusion had to do with my understanding of differential tempering and Kershaw's statement that composite blades were developed to achieve essentially the same type of benefits. I never considered that the piece of CPM-D2 that forms part of the 0454's blade spine was there for decorative purposes only. And without the benefit of the explanation you provided to attendees at the Blade Show, I'm sure you can understand my confusion.

What really took me by surprise is when KAI Corp said that CB technology had "evolved" beyond Kershaw's stated purpose in having created it. I, for one, was unaware of any such evolution. As you stated, however, the real advantage of CB technology is that it allows less expensive alloys to be married to super steels such that the whole remains cost effective and strength is not sacrificed in the process. That's an explanation that makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks again for your input.
 
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I think what "evolution" meant was that the technology has evolved beyond being purely technical and functional in nature. We are accepting that it has evolved to the point where we add features for purely aesthetic reasons. In other words, the piece on the spine is there for aesthetic value only, and that's ok.
 
Sometimes I think you like being thick headed for a reason.

I don't think KAI realized that they needed to state when they evolve. I think it is pretty apparent in their design and the pieces themselves. It's like how you are still stuck in that 'ZT only makes thick, heavy, overbuilt knives' mindset even though they have been getting thinner, lighter and more stylish for at least the last two years.

Composite blades, from my understanding, can serve both purposes. When they used it with ZDP-189 (a steel that is almost always laminated for the same reason) and S110V then it was almost certainly for what you say is the 'stated purpose'. This isn't the first knife that they have done with 14c and d2 for aesthetic purposes only. The Rake and the JYD both used the same materials, mainly because it looks cool.
 
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