Recommendation? ZT 0808 vs Spyderco Mantra/Mantra 2.

K.O.D.

K.O.D.

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I'm looking for a new flipper, $215 max. I want something with a 3.25" or smaller blade, and not too heavy. I'm looking at the three knives in the title, as well as a Kizer Gemini.

Stipulations:

No assist
No S30V
Tip up clip
No Benchmade's

Flippers I have:

Spyderco Domino
Kizer Ki 4423
Bailey model 2 flipper geek edition
Brous Bionic

Flippers I've had, and don't want:

ZT 0801, 0770cf, 0350, 0561
Spyderco Southard

Thanks for your help.
 
I have heard the Mantra knives have cupped washers that cause issues on some knives. Probably better to handle them in person. Both would be great for slicing, with a much better steel in my opinion. Mantra 2 seems like a more pocket friendly and fluid design.

The only ZT designs I will carry are under .120 or 3mm blade thickness. The 808 is pretty thick at .160/4mm. Kinda beefy for a mid size knife. Not sure if that's what you prefer but I personally dropped an 0452cf because it had the same thickness which I feel only works with a full flat grind.

For me the most attractive is the Gemini, because it's thin, simple, and intuitive. The 808 is kind of a workhorse similar to the 801 in purpose. The two Mantra knives look somewhat weird but if you can score a good one they would probably be great in pocket. Spyderco still seems to be trying to get the hang of flippers.

I would like to recommend another option, the 0095. S35vn, midsize, bearings, flipper, thinner but wide blade shape reminiscent of the Link/770/777/Knockout. Super comfortable in the hand.

Sorry for the book, and good luck.
 
I struggle to appreciate small knives, myself...but the 0808 is comfortable in pocket AND in hand. The detent is a bit stiff; but not enough to bother me. I rarely carry it due to the size; but I do like it.
Mantra 1 - not my style; so I won't comment.
Mantra 2 - I actually like the way this one looks, and I am a fan of CPM-M4....that's all I can say until mine arrives on Thursday.
Kizer Gemini - I sort of like the look; but not enough so to take the risk. I have also seen some negative comments about the action.

As far as the ZT 0095 suggested above - it's a bit larger than you're looking for; but, if you can get past that, its a good knife.
For that matter, I like the the Advocate. It was a bit gritty feeling at first; but I flushed it out good & it's been better. I bought mine soon after the model was released - and started seeing complaints about the bearings/washers shortly after I received it. I've noticed no signs of any problems (it does have a slight rattle at the lanyard tube)...but I haven't disassembled the knife, either. If there is any issue, I'll send it back to Spyderco, rather than open it up myself. Slim in the pocket, comfortable in hand, and ffg m4.

ZT 0456 - my only problem with this knife is the small blade length. Some people complain about the bulk; but that's one of the things I like about it - it is big enough to feel good in hand, despite its short handle. It's worth a look, IMO.

I'll update this post with my impressions about the Mantra 2
 
I agree on Spyderco still figuring flippers out. My Domino is very gritty, even with liberal tuf-glide. The 0095 is just too big/long/heavy for me.

I plan to look more at Kizer's.
 
I recently picked up a Mantra 1 and expected the gritty feel right away and sooner or later the washer issue to pop up. Out of the box it did not feel overly gritty to me, it was quite smooth. Like many knives that like to be broken in a little. It now feels completely broken in and feels great. Mine is not a bad flipper at all. I quite like it. It's better than my de-assisted ZT 0566. Now I won't say it flies out the fastest, but honestly I got it because it was a flipper AND a good Spydie hole combo. It comes out quite fast with the thumb btw. I do not have the Domino (yet) or ZT 0808.

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I'm waiting for these to drop :

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SteelWill Cutjack Mini in m390

Aside from that, I don't see how you could possibly do better within your parameters than the Gemini. It's a fantastic knife.

Shame about the steel on the Spyderco Positron. I'd really like to like it.
 
I have 3 Spyderco Flippers and although I love Spyderco, in the flipper department they really trail the pack. They don't really make a flipper I can recommend if you're open to other brands.

I have an 0808 and an 0801 and like them both, but I'm concerned that if you don't like the 0801, you may not like the 0808. They are, after all, both Rexford designs and have a similar feel. Some other ZT's that might might interest you are the 0450 and 0460. It's too heavy for me but people who carry it seem to absolutely love the 0456.

The Kizer Gemini is an awesome knife and a great value if you find the right place to buy it. A couple of other Kizers that stand out from the pack are the Kizer Velox 2 (not quite as good a flipper, but real similar to the Gemini in ergos...and the hidden flipper tab is great) and the Kizer Guru (available with flipper or studs, with or without holes in the handle).

I think the current "best deal" on a quality flipper is the Ferrum Forge Falcon. A great design from the folks at FF made to the exacting precision of WE Knife Company and you have a winner. Titanium framelock flipper with S35VN blade at a price that will let you almost buy 2 with your budget...or buy 1 and lots of beer! Only downside is waiting for the orders to be fulfilled but that's what all the beer is for!

They're not being sold at a supporting member so I can't link, but a simple Google search should find it.
 
Thanks. No alcohol for me, I'm in liver failure.

I'll look into the ff falcon.
 
Viper Kyomi... Just over 4 oz.

Kizer IFT, under 3.5 (just added to my own list of wants)
 
So, I've narrowed it down a bit. Kizer Gemini is number one on my list.

My question is this:

With the ZT 0450 and 0460, I'm worried they may be too thin for my hands. I wear a size large glove, short fingers large palms.

Also, I think the 0460 is sexy as hell, but the blade shape makes wonder about it's utility. I might be crazy.

I know nothing about the other Chinese manufacturers such as Reate and WE but am open to suggestions.
 
I like the 0450. Medium to large hands. Have a tendency to hold knives like that with my thumb on the spine to cut. It's about the same as an Endura, just a shorter handle, if that's a good reference? 0460 looks great but looks like some odd ergonomics. Blades with that much belly work best for flat or straight materials. I personally prefer a flat edge because I cut a lot of curved material. 0450 has a bit of both?
 
The Mantra is way slicier than the 808. The 808's blade is thin for a ZT but the Mantra is thinner. The 808 flips so much better than the Mantra. The Mantra's action let me down. The 808's felt like precision clock work, a unique feeling I've never found in another flipper. I did not care for the 808's blade shape.
 
K.O.D. said:
So, I've narrowed it down a bit. Kizer Gemini is number one on my list.

My question is this:

With the ZT 0450 and 0460, I'm worried they may be too thin for my hands. I wear a size large glove, short fingers large palms.

Also, I think the 0460 is sexy as hell, but the blade shape makes wonder about it's utility. I might be crazy.

I know nothing about the other Chinese manufacturers such as Reate and WE but am open to suggestions.
Click to expand...

Some people had a lot of trouble with the 0450 when it first came out. If you put any pressure on the lock bar, the knife is almost impossible to open. You have to kind of carefully perch your fingers along the clip and the stationary frame on the lockside and there isn't a huge amount of real estate there. I don't know if that goes along with large hands or not, but you might want to see if you can find an 0450 (or 0460 for that matter) to handle and see if it presents a problem for you. For those who had the problem, it was practically a deal breaker for them. Personally I've never had a problem with my 0450 and I have medium sized hands.

I will have an 0460 someday but currently can't comment on the utility of the blade shape. I carry another Persian style blade fairly often, a Reate Valkyrie, and although the blade isn't the best for chopping actions like food prep, it does OK for utility tasks like opening packages. The tip of a Persian is actually great for digging out a splinter. I think a lot would depend on what you do most with your knives for EDC.

Reate and WE make great knives.

The newest Reate models are a little over-priced and strike me as a little bit "fashionista", but the Horizon, Hills, Tempest, D9 and other older models are still great knives at a good price when you can find them. Reate also makes production knives for Liong Mah and Todd Begg, so you can depend on their quality.

WE is a relative newcomer, at least as "WE". I have several and they're all great knives. WE knives today is kind of what Reate was a few years ago before Reate became popular and lost a lot of the value. WE is currently making a production knife for Ferrum Forge, so once again the ties to US knife designers helps establish an overseas company.

I think you should feel comfortable looking at either brand and if you see a model you like, ask for some feedback on it.
 
Consider the Kizer Ursa Minor!

I have and love the Gemini, but the Ursa Minor just fits my hand slightly better due to the blade shape. I still have my 0450, but it's too cramped for my hand. My Mantra2 sees a lot more carry than the 0450, but the Kizers see more carry than either. I've bought the 808 twice now and really just don't like the aesthetics.
 
Sounds like we have similarly sized hands.
20170508_145734_zpsv6zfcirz.jpg


Big hands, short fingers. I was on the fence about buying a 450. I absolutely love the aesthetic. Thankfully someone sent me one for sharpening so I was able to avoid a bad purchase.

It's a lovely knife, but it just didn't work in my hand. I couldn't keep my fingers off of the lockbar when deploying to save my life and if I squeezed the handle at all while cutting I'd cause the lockbar to travel a little bit and stick.

Hopefully someone will send me a 0460 soon so I can check it out. The curve in the handle could be enough to remedy the issues I had with the 0450.
 
I think I'm going to go with the Gemini. Still thinking.
 
K.O.D. said:
I think I'm going to go with the Gemini. Still thinking.
Click to expand...

Consider ordering the Ursa Minor clip for the Gemini at the same time if you want a really nice machined clip. I usually carry my Gemini clipless, but the upgraded clip makes a big difference in hand for me.
 
So...

I actually ended up going larger, bought a ZT 0095 BLK on the exchange today. It goes against much of what I like in a knife, but I wanted to try S90V. You only live once.
 
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