ZT cutting cost? Skeletonized liners & milled lightening pockets on Ti scale

I

insta9ves

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Apr 3, 2007
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*Disclaimer - This does not apply to the latest 2017 models

First off, sorry for the provocative title, but i've tried asking a few times from different thread but never got more info.

One of the most common criticisms for ZT's is their weight, especially the liner lock models like 0350 and 0909. But do you guys know that it wasn't always like that?
When ZT0350 first came out they weren't as heavy as the latest iterations. I bought a 0350 back in 2010, it has very nicely milled out liners making the knife weights only slight over 5oz, which is quite light for how wide it is. It was very nimble in hand and the balance were great.
Fast forward 3 years later when I bought 2 more 0350s, I found that they are now using solid liners and the knife is much heavier compared to the older version at more than 6oz. It's also rather handle heavy due to the full liner, making it less balanced than the older ones.

The same also applies to ZT0560. When it first came out, one of the main thing ZT boasted was how light the knife is for its size, at only around 5oz. They were showing off the lightening pocket on the titanium scale as well as the skeletonized liners on many shows, you can still find some examples on youtube.
However after a while they stopped doing it. The recent 0560 before they are being discontinued all had solid liners and titanium scales, and they weighted about 6.5oz.

Did anyone ever get an explanation from ZT on why they changed it?
It's obviously due to cost, however they price for these models also increased over the years. It almost feel like they are cutting corners doing this.

Their new 2017 lineups all feature skeletonized titanium handle(except the smaller models like the 0460), and it makes them significantly lighter than the previous models of the same size. They even highlighted this fact like how they did when the 0560 first came out.
Looking at the spec sheet, the new ZT0055 only weights 5oz at 8.75" and the ZT0920 only weights 5.4oz at 9". Compare that with the ZT0801 which is much smaller than the other 2 at 8.2" but weights 5.8oz for having solid Ti handle.

Some of you may think that im just nitpicking over that 1+oz difference, but i think the slight changes in weight really affects how the knife is carried and more importantly how it feels in hand. Plus, if you are already doing something good, why take a step backward?
My 0909 for one could definitely benefit from having skeletonized liner without sacrificing any strength, as the solid liner on the non-locking is just dead weight.

Hope ZT will keep the lightening features on the 2017 models and even reintroduce this to the other model.

NOTE: In before anyone start saying "go to gym, stop wearing skinny jeans, learn to lift, etc." - Grow up.
 
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So, which move was the supposed cost cutting move? Non-skeletonized steel liners? A few extra cuts from the laser really wouldn't add much in the way of cost, so removing those cuts really wouldn't save much. Less milling on the Ti liners is another story.
 
I didn't know ZT had a history of skeletonizing. I've often thought about how much more awesome the 0801 would be if the inner scales were milled out enough to "magically" loose that 0.8 oz. It would undoubtedly be my undisputed eternal favorite. At least the new 0801TI is a bit lighter due to speed holes!
 
I think its a decision that will please some and not others. And its always been that way with zt. I dont care why they did it. I prefer full liners.
 
Curious, I just pulled my 350 and 561. The 350 is solid, and 561 is milled. Not sure I have a preference either way.

But one thing I did wish for, would be a titanium liner (instead of steel), on the 561 & 562CF. It just kind of seems mis-matched against the titanium lock sides. Even if it is just in my head and probably no functional difference. Unless I decide to anodize down the road. Now that I think about it, Ti & milling may pull a noticeable weight out.



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Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
 
1 oz doesn't seem like much unless you handle an oz of lead. If it's heavy it better be big
 
I don't like skeletonized liners and milled-out pockets; just more places that trap lint and grime.

I prefer solid liners and no cut-outs.
The extra weight does not bother me at all.
 
Weight is a factor to many who EDC folders.

Milling the inside of the titanium, skelotinized liners, use of materials like aluminum & CF goes towards achieving those goals. ZT did it in the past (0350, 0550/0551) but stopped probably due to cost savings.

They have been using more CF the past few years and last year more aluminum backspacers, etc.

This year's new production models definitely accentuate the weight reduction in 0055, 0920 and 0850 through internal milling of the titanium frames. I don't see any cons including pockets attracting dirt. A good wash, rinse, dry and air duster takes care of that.

I do wish that ZT would revise older models with an eye towards weight reduction. This includes 0909, 0808, 0220, 0456, etc.

It's a customer and sales driven response and becoming the industry norm.

How can something be too light. In the old days it was tennis rackets, golf clubs and guns. When lighter models were introduced initially people said it doesn't feel right. A beefy, weighty and sturdy 1911 pistol made of steel is a real handgun not a light polymer one. :)
 
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Just look at the responses in this thread, about half like skeletonized light weight folders and the rest prefer full liners and could care less about weight. Zt and any other manufacturer for that matter are screwed if they do, screwed if they don't. At least you had a choice on the 0350's and 056x's.

My personal opinion is who cares what it weighs light or heavy. My preference is more along function, feel and use in hand, and then "looks". Obviously fully subjective and shows that there are us in the middle who could care less either way on the "weight" issue.
 
I was just comparing my milled out 0561 to my solid 0560bw the other night and the difference is quite noticeable IMO. I really wish my 0550 was milled out as well.

I agree that an update to current models like the 0456 would really benefit from milling, and probably boost sales of that model.
 
One vote here for full liners on my overbuilt ZT pocket brick. ZT is supposed to make heavy knives just like Spyderco makes sleek slicing blades, and I don't really want to see their respective brand-focus changed.

Hey, you could always modify your own liners with a drill press, as it is easier to take away material than it is to add it.
 
My 0560BW is serial 4108 and it has the lockbar insert and is milled out. My 0550BLK is a Gen 3 serial 1109 also with lockbar insert and it is milled out. My 0300BW is serial 3100 with lockbar insert and it is not milled. My 0801 is also not milled. I got the 0300BW first. Wonder when they switched....
 
I was a little disappointed when I saw that the 0562cf wasn't milled or skeletonized but the weight isn't bad anyway so meh.....
 
RamZar said:
Weight is a factor to many who EDC folders.

Milling the inside of the titanium, skelotinized liners, use of materials like aluminum & CF goes towards achieving those goals. ZT did it in the past (0350, 0550/0551) but stopped probably due to cost savings.

They have been using more CF the past few years and last year more aluminum backspacers, etc.

This year's new production models definitely accentuate the weight reduction in 0055, 0920 and 0850 through internal milling of the titanium frames. I don't see any cons including pockets attracting dirt. A good wash, rinse, dry and air duster takes care of that.

I do wish that ZT would revise older models with an eye towards weight reduction. This includes 0909, 0808, 0220, 0456, etc.

It's a customer and sales driven response and becoming the industry norm.

How can something be too light. In the old days it was tennis rackets, golf clubs and guns. When lighter models were introduced initially people said it doesn't feel right. A beefy, weighty and sturdy 1911 pistol made of steel is a real handgun not a light polymer one. :)
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Thanks RamZar, you sums up what i wanted to say better than i could :thumbup:

BTW im not really complaining about the weight so much, as i carry my 0909 all the time. However, you can be both harduse macho without being heavy, like the Cold Steel Recon 1 for example, or Benchmade Contego, which weights "only" 5.9oz, which is light for a >9" knife.

Like i said, this has something to do with how it feels in hand, and it's very subjective. I respect that people like heavy feeling knife, gives a sense of quality.
But, the little change in weight distribution also change the balance and this is a fact. IMO most of the current ZT lineup, other that the carbon fiber models are very handle heavy. You'll know what i'm saying if you have the old 0350 and the new one, same applies to 0560. If given the choice would you rather have a more balanced knife?

My other point is that if ZT was already doing something well, why take a step back? They obviously know the benefit, hence re-introducing them to the 2017 lineup.
 
abbazaba said:
I was just comparing my milled out 0561 to my solid 0560bw the other night and the difference is quite noticeable IMO. I really wish my 0550 was milled out as well.

I agree that an update to current models like the 0456 would really benefit from milling, and probably boost sales of that model.
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Yeah this is especially true for 0456, most of the dislikers complain about its weight. Some people may have different opinion, but there no denying that for a 7.7" knife, 6.6oz is really inefficient design and engineering wise.
 
My Medford Deployment 187 DPT weighs 7.4 ounces.
I have been carrying it every day for the last 23 days, including wearing it at the gym, and at home with sweat pants.
When I say I don't care much about weight savings, I really, really mean it. :)

I also don't like the look of milled pockets and skeletonized liners; the look bothers me a certain amount.
On my knives that have skeletonized liners, it is something I have to look past, not a feature I want.
I certainly would not want to pay extra for a feature I don't like the looks of, don't feel the need for, that does collect extra lint. Sure I can wash or blow that lint out, but if it wasn't there in the first place, that would be even better. :thumbup:

I also have light weight knives that have no liners, ones that are just G-10 or FRN scales.
I carry them when I feel like it too, since like I already said, weight doesn't matter to me.
So it isn't a case of "I'm real manly, yo. Look at how heavy my tank knife is compared to your toy, girly man."

I just don't like the particular features that this thread is asking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ja6Hn8ps4
 
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hkyew said:
Yeah this is especially true for 0456, most of the dislikers complain about its weight. Some people may have different opinion, but there no denying that for a 7.7" knife, 6.6oz is really inefficient design and engineering wise.
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0456 is kind of a thick, chunky knife though (for it's relatively short size). Feels really solid in the hand imo, the solid Ti frame and nice CTS-204P blade makes it a winner in my book (and the new one in CPM 20CV). If they milled it out a little, I wonder how much weight that would actually save? IMO it probably isn't enough to justify the cost of adding that to the process.
 
425KRS said:
0456 is kind of a thick, chunky knife though (for it's relatively short size). Feels really solid in the hand imo, the solid Ti frame and nice CTS-204P blade makes it a winner in my book (and the new one in CPM 20CV). If they milled it out a little, I wonder how much weight that would actually save? IMO it probably isn't enough to justify the cost of adding that to the process.
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But then it would have speed holes, and work better with one's carbon fiber frame bike with whatever lightweight metal alloy or carbon fiber is preferred for such things. :D
 
stabman said:
I don't like skeletonized liners and milled-out pockets; just more places that trap lint and grime.

I prefer solid liners and no cut-outs.
The extra weight does not bother me at all.
Click to expand...

yep. ^this.
 
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