ZT question.

knowbody777

knowbody777

Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
215
If this is addressed somewhere else then I apologize for any redundancy. but what in the hell is the difference between the ZT0560 and the ZT 0561... every place I have looked has the same description and price for both knives.
also, I keep hearing awful things about Elmax... I don't know what to believe.
Thanks
 
0560 has black scale; 0561 has brown. That's it.

I don't know what you've heard about Elmax. It may take a little longer to sharpen than some other steels, but:
It polishes up nicely, takes a ridiculous edge, and holds it a LONG time. Maybe not as tough as some of the supertough steels some might try to compare it to, but I haven't done anything to test it that way. Wouldn't, in a folder, anyway.
 
The difference between the 0560/1 are the handle scale colors. The 0560 has a black scale and the 0561 has a brown scale.

Elmax isn't supposed to be a razor sharp steel and be able to keep that razors edge. It's more of a "work all day" and still be sharp kind of steel.
 
There is no difference between the two other than the colour of the presentation scale the 0560 being black and the 0561 being brown. As to elmax in my use it has been a great steel. I don't know where you are hearing these horror stories from but the consensus is that most people are satisfied with the performance of elmax in the zt 056x series.

EDIT: posts ^ beat me to the trigger
 
I haven't heard anything about elmax that was directly related to ZT but gavko recently did a video and mentions a couple of other knives and how elmax is losing it edge ridiculously fast on certain folders.
 
and thanks to everyone for clearing that up on the 0560/1 models. it seems it would have been easier for me to determine that on my own but I just assumed there had to be a bigger difference... silly me!
Thanks again!
 
I've heard a lot of bad things about Elmax steel.

[video=youtube;V0ea5dFmZmA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0ea5dFmZmA[/video]
 
I think part of the problem is Elmax was hyped up so much some people expected it to run circles around S30v and others but it is just not the case.I have the 0561 and it has performed fine under my use which is just normal EDC cutting tasks.A knife having Elmax steel is not a big selling point for me.
 
elmax is superior to stuff like s30v or s35vn but it has to be heat treated and ground well. i have plenty of tests with all different steels and elmax definitely outperforms other stainless steels i've tried maybe except s125vn BUT there is a huge difference between production made knife and custom knife. dont judge the steel by a production knife where company cuts cost on manufacturing and its possibly ground by someone who doesnt care or know much about grinding high quality knives...
i've heard way too many bad experiences about production elmax just and experienced it myself too, luckily it does go away since its mostly just burned/overheated edges so after couple sharpening the good steel comes up and knife performs well. and imagine how many bad experiences we wont ever hear just because knives are on the shelves of collectors who never use them...
 
I don't know. My experience has been the opposite. The edge retention on my 561 seems to be better than on my s30v blades. I recently used it to skin, quarter, and cut up two aoudad sheep on a hunt in West TX. These animals are a little larger than whitetails, and have thicker, tougher skin and hair. Afterward I still had a good working edge. But, I touched up the edge on UF sharpmaker stones anyway. Then, I used the 561 to clean, and cut up some very tough Sheep head fish. They have very thick scales and bones which normally dull a knife very quickly. The 561 did excellent during that use. The blade didn't appear to suffer any damage. I've used my 561 also for opening and cutting up large boxes on several occasions. The edge retention seems very good to me, better than my s30v blades. Plus, I use it around salt water, with no signs of rust. I do rinse with fresh water and dry it off after being out on the boat though. I've not had trouble sharpening the 561, or my 551 either. They seem to take a nice hair popping edge. It does take a little longer to get the edge than on my vg10 or s30v blades. But, I expect that. In fact, I like Elmax more than the m390 blades I had. I traded most of those off, and only have a pm2 with m390 now. The only steel I have that I prefer over Elmax for edge retention is my cpm m4 blades. I LOVE m4. It will hold an edge it seems like forever. The only thing I don't like is that it will try to rust on me around the salt water. So, the Elmax, s30v, vg10 and H1 get the fishing and boating duties.
 
knowbody777 said:
I haven't heard anything about elmax that was directly related to ZT but gavko recently did a video and mentions a couple of other knives and how elmax is losing it edge ridiculously fast on certain folders.
Click to expand...

You have to be careful when people say statements like that with no qualification. "losing its edge ridiculously fast" could mean being on the level of AUS6 for some people, or s30v for some people. That's a HUGE divide in edge retention (and quite frankly, you're a bit nuts if you say that about properly treated s30v, yet people do). With the ridiculous super steels out there nowadays people like to down talk anything that isn't such a wonder steel. It seems the problem is that ELMAX was so overhyped, and then when it got put in production knives it seemed to only perform in the ballpark of s30v. S30V is certainly no slouch, but modern knife nuts I think were expecting more, so they started talking it down.

Next time someone says "its edge holding sucks" make sure you ask what they are comparing to before you take their word for it.
 
I dont want to say which knife it was because the blade was decommissioned, replaced and I havent used the replacement to follow up my findings but my experience with elmax has been less than adequate in my mind. My knives see use but they dont see abuse. And my knife with elmax was pretty much babied. Id open letters, cut a thread here or there. Very basic to a fault edc tasks. The edge dulled amazingly fast. If someone wants a comparison to another steel my benchmade 154cm knives hold edges just fine compared to my elmax knife. I had heard these rumors about elmax and I kept telling myself that it had to just be steel snobbery and that if anything it may have just been a few select knives. The edge retention or lack thereof didnt bother me. What got me was that the stuff was so abrasion resistant that it literally destroyed my 80 grit Edge Pro stone. I literally sat there for an hour trying to get a bur and it just wouldnt happen. I started to get so tired trying to build up a burr that I actually lost my grip a few times and left some nice marks on the blade where you dont really want marks. This stuff made me feel like an even bigger novice than I am. I admitted defeat and sent the knife in to the company that manufactured it. For me ive come to appreciate supposed lesser steels. In my eyes I would rather have a knife that needs sharpening more often yet will take a keen edge and take it easily. For me an edge that lasts a super long time is useless if it is impossible to get it back once it does finally go. Unfortunately in my situation I never experienced long edge retention with elmax. It dulled fast and when i say it dulled I mean it was shocking. But that was 1 knife and I fully realize my experience may not be what most experience.



goodeyesniper said:
You have to be careful when people say statements like that with no qualification. "losing its edge ridiculously fast" could mean being on the level of AUS6 for some people, or s30v for some people. That's a HUGE divide in edge retention (and quite frankly, you're a bit nuts if you say that about properly treated s30v, yet people do). With the ridiculous super steels out there nowadays people like to down talk anything that isn't such a wonder steel. It seems the problem is that ELMAX was so overhyped, and then when it got put in production knives it seemed to only perform in the ballpark of s30v. S30V is certainly no slouch, but modern knife nuts I think were expecting more, so they started talking it down.

Next time someone says "its edge holding sucks" make sure you ask what they are comparing to before you take their word for it.
Click to expand...


Gavko is pretty knowledgeable. He doesnt have a strong presence on this forum but hes a pretty successful youtuber. Its not just some dude with no experience. He really does use his knives unlike many of the experts on forums. Did S30V really get that bad of reception? I remember S35Vn getting a bum rap for edge retention. The only thing I remembered about s30v was that people had a hard time sharpening it, but edge retention was great.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
My knives see use but they dont see abuse. And my knife with elmax was pretty much babied. Id open letters, cut a thread here or there. Very basic to a fault edc tasks. The edge dulled amazingly fast.
Click to expand...

Can I ask how dull it got? I would expect that it would drop off the peak razor sharpness quickly, then sit on a newsprint-tearing, printer-paper slicing edge for awhile.

Would it cut newsprint/receipts? Paper? Business cards? Corrugated cardboard?

After a couple of sharpenings, some people describe an improvement. My 0560 was secondhand and had already been sharpened a few times, so I can't comment on the impact of the belt grinding on the durability of the factory edge.
 
I like Elmax and have had good luck with it on my 0560. But the 0560 comes with a thick blade, so it's not going to cut as well as other knives, not because of the Elmax but because of the edge geometry.

I reprofiled mine to 30 degrees (15 dps), and that helped a lot, but the edge shoulders are still 0.0455 inches. By comparison, my Sebenza is 0.018 inches -- less than half the edge width.
 
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