Zt0100 Vs. Busse?

B

Bolt

Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
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Does anyone have experience with the ZT0100? I was wondering if the CMP3V steel lives up to the claims from the ZT rep in the shot show videos and his defense of the knife vs. the Kabar on a military chat board.
I was wondering how it stands next to an INFI steel.
Is is worth the $236? That is a lot of knife for the money when you look at the cost of Busse knives that size.

Any thoughts or reviews from owners of the ZT0100?
Pics are great too!
Thanks in advance.
 
Get a Busse Game Warden and post this on the Busse Forum. You'll get fast answers.
 
I would be interested in comments on this, too. What is better, INFI (which I think I read somewhere is 52100 ball bearing steel) or CPM 3V? If he posts it on a Busse forum, it's obvious what kind of answers he is likely to get.
 
At first, I was skeptical of infi but after watching the Noss destruction test on a Busse knife---I'm a believer now and I ordered one! At least one HOG owns a Kershaw. TL just bought one.
 
The Kershaw ZT line are good blades but, in my opinion, they aren't even in the same league as a Busse blade.
 
What specifically makes Infi better than CPM 3V. Does anyone even know the composition of Infi?
 
While surfing for info in INFI, I found a breakdown of its composition on a site called 'cutleryscience.' I should say that I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous. INFI has relatively low carbon content of .5%, moderate chromium content at 8 or so pct., and small vanadium content. To me, that translates into a very tough blade steel, but not great edge retention. CPM 3V has a higher carbon content, about the same chromium, and much higher vanadium. Plus it is made with the CPM process, meaning an even distribution of carbides and better wear resistance. I would have to guess that CPM 3V would be the better choice, but that's just a guess.

I will wait for someone more knowledgable to weigh in.
 
riffraff said:
INFI is allegedly a nitrogen-rich steel, roughly on par with CPM 3V and S30V, according to this thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13624

HTH.
Click to expand...

Lots of steels have nitrogen. INFI actually bhas more than just that, cobalt being one of the elements. S30V isn't even in the same league as INFI or 3V. It is a Stainless Steel and has good corrosion resistance, but that is about it. Toughness for it is quite low compared to tool and plain carbon steels



wutitiz said:
While surfing for info in INFI, I found a breakdown of its composition on a site called 'cutleryscience.' I should say that I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous. INFI has relatively low carbon content of .5%, moderate chromium content at 8 or so pct., and small vanadium content. To me, that translates into a very tough blade steel, but not great edge retention. CPM 3V has a higher carbon content, about the same chromium, and much higher vanadium. Plus it is made with the CPM process, meaning an even distribution of carbides and better wear resistance. I would have to guess that CPM 3V would be the better choice, but that's just a guess.

I will wait for someone more knowledgable to weigh in.
Click to expand...

although I am no authority, I have owned both. My cpm3V experience consists of custom knives not production knives. I think both steels are very close, but INFI still has the edge, no pun intended. INFI never chips, or almost never chips. I have had 3V chip out on very hard use, where infi dented. Neither steel failed but I never used my 3V knives as hard as I used my INFI knives. I would say that if you can trust the HT, cpm3V is a great steel, is it better than INFI, not in my opinion, but the difference is small enough that 99% of users will never notice. You will be happy with either. For that matter A2 is close enough that you will not notice much difference with it either. How many broken Reeves knives have you ever heard of? And they are all A2. It is the heat treat and attention to construction detail that is crucial. Go with whatever knife you like best.
 
wutitiz said:
While surfing for info in INFI, I found a breakdown of its composition on a site called 'cutleryscience.' I should say that I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous. INFI has relatively low carbon content of .5%, moderate chromium content at 8 or so pct., and small vanadium content. To me, that translates into a very tough blade steel, but not great edge retention. CPM 3V has a higher carbon content, about the same chromium, and much higher vanadium. Plus it is made with the CPM process, meaning an even distribution of carbides and better wear resistance. I would have to guess that CPM 3V would be the better choice, but that's just a guess.

I will wait for someone more knowledgable to weigh in.
Click to expand...

I believe that is where the heat treat comes in. Busse has proven their edge retention to be well beyond what you would expect from those numbers. It's been a few years now, but before I spent the necessary $$ to check out a Busse for myself I did LOTS of research.

Infi's claim to fame is outstanding toughness at a relatively high hardness- plus ease of sharpening- basically more of the good qualities (edge retention) and less of the bad (chipping) than other steels. It is also very corrosion resistant for a non-stainless steel. It isn't magic, but it is a very well optimized steel as is proven every time someone puts it to the test. It even seems to make Cliff Stamp happy.

This is not to say that 3V and A2 (and D2 and ....) are not very good steels when properly heat treated. Oh yeah, that first Busse was not my last- even at their prices.
 
I was looking for a good 3v knife and looked at the ZT, Fehrman and the K9 Dingo. I have gone for the K9 dingo...but will probably get the Fehrman next. For some reason I keep skipping over the ZT for other knives, even though I like it. I would go for the INFI everytime though but big Busse's aren't cheap unless you dont mind getting a coated one and stripping it (my preference).
 
I am a fan of Busse knives but some of them have lousy edge geometry and are to thick to make good cutting tools. To be fair most of those are more for collectors. When you have an INFI knife with a good edge geometry it is a very hard combo to beat especially when you add the great heat treat Busse is known for. Either the ZT or a similar Busse will more than likely be overkill and both are fine blades.
 
What the edge-holding of the INFI? I can buy its toughness and the superior resistance to chipping, but it would seem that 3V would have a decided advantage in edge-holding with its higher carbon content and much higher vanadium.
 
INFI's edge retention is no joke, either. Jerry Busse performed a live demonstration of INFI's edge retention on rope. He made thousands of cuts with the same portion of blade before finally running out of rope. CPM-3V may be better, but it is certainly not a problem for INFI.
 
INFI is not A8, which is the steel normally used for woodchippers. I believe it is a proprietary steel alloy that shares some elements with woodchipper steel.

I have used INFI quite a bit in several Busse knives. Performance has been excellent, although I have chipped a blade or two by hitting rocks or staples. The chips were small though, and easily sharpened out. It seems the older Busse INFI knives tended to chip a little easier than the newer ones, as though Busse has incrementally improved either the heat treat, INFI alloy mixture, or both over time. The newer knives tend to dent before chipping more than the older ones. This could be a completely subjective impression of it on my part though. I can say this: When a tough cutting or chopping job presents itself I always reach for one of my Busses.

I have used CPM3V too. Mostly in Fehrman knives. It works well, but it does tend to chip easier than INFI, and it definitely rusts easier. It is also a little harder to sharpen. Edge holding between the two seems pretty much equal with maybe a slight advantage to 3V in non corrosive materials.

A2 is a very good steel. Remember, Busse used it before he found INFI. Chris Reeve still uses it. So does Bark River and a few others. It does rust easier than INFI, but about the same as 3V. For some reason, it really holds a good edge and it gets scary sharp without much effort. I have an old Blackjack Trailguide I use and that knife really works well - very sharp and it stays that way. I don't believe A2 is nearly as tough as INFI or 3V for that matter, but it is certainly tough enough for most applications.
 
Hartsfield's heat treatment on A-2 is on par with any maker. What is his secret?
 
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