GEC #72 and a #12 arrived today - first impressions (not impressed with the #72)

Lockbacks are really a different beast. Really have a locking bar, not so much a backspring. If you don't shim them when tightening then you have to push the blade completely open and closed. If you do shim, then there will periodically be a little discernible movement (by design, but not usually noticeable). GEC's other true backspring knives can close up like a steel door, because the tight backsprings can overcome the extra resistance of a watertight fit. Having said all that, it would be great if every knife had perfect action and no cosmetic issues. If it is worth the extra money to have a perfect model, you might just pay the dealer and extra 25% next time to really look it over hard with your particular expectations in-hand (humor).

Couple things to note. 1) GEC probably does not have any of those in stock and cannot take it apart economically; thus my guess is that they will probably have your dealer issue a refund or replace with another model. 2) Edited to allow for continued plausible deniability ;) -- but import/export of any wood, stag, horn, shell needs to be investigated beforehand.
 
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I think you're doing the right thing Andi, if I were you I'd send it directly to GEC, the address should be right on the tube. Most likely they'll tighten down the bolsters a bit to remove the blade wobble, you may still have a bit of a gap there but you'll have a nice tight knife. Viel Glück!

Eric
 
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Quote ea42: "if you can slide an .005 or so shim between the liner and the blade tang/lockbar before you tighten it, you'll avoid making it too tight."
Eric, what is the next step ? Tap on the bolsters or tap directly over the pivot pin ? one side or both ?
I would really like to know exactly the procedure for a non-knifemaker to tighten up blade play, for both a lockback and a slipjoint. (I have a Case/Bose Lanny's Clip that needs 'tightening')
thanks, roland
 
Roland, you'd never want to tap on just the bolster because you'd wind up popping the pin. The goal is not to have the pin show when you're done. When a knife like this is repaired in the shop, it's basically re-done at the bolsters. I'd insert the shim (or shims), and then re-hammer the pin on both sides to tighten the knife up. By re-hammer I mean give it a few blows to re-set the pin and then pein around the edges to re-seal the countersink. At this point you have a fairly rough looking bolster so you need to re-glaze and polish it. Same goes for a regular slippy, although with those you may not need shims, sometimes a thin knife blade on the inside portion of the tang may do. In general I still re-set the pins though. If it becomes a bit overtight in the process I'll cuttler it like a new knife, slackening the blade a bit by tapping on the tang while it's held at an angle on the stiddy. If it's a VERY slight wobble you might get away with giving the pin (if you can find it) a light tap, or giving the bolsters a little squeeze in a vice. Those methods are a crapshoot, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

Eric
 
Eric,

Wouldn't the case/bose come down to the bushing? If the tolerances are wrong there may be no more room to tighten it down.

Also, I really appreciate you telling us how the shops do this. I also remember Mike telling me about a year ago that the shims used are the reason for play.

That said, I had success removing blade play on a GEC 42 and there was no binding... I also had success on a number of slipjoints. I would not call it a crapshoot. It worked on everyone of my knives.

Kevin
 
If your only concern was the slight movement (didn't sound like it in your post), then they can fix you right up. Someone local could probably spend a few minutes on it and get it tuned to your taste as well; much cheaper than shipping it back. My response was to the backspring gaps, which sounded like the real issue.

It is surprising how well many people can suite themselves on fine tuning. Many times I can make myself like the feel of a knife better just by thinking about having to spend the time fine tuning it :D There is a sweet spot if you want to spend the time finding it; usually drives me crazy tightening / loosening / tightening / etc.

A little discussion on the subject took place right here a couple years ago.
 
knifeswapper said:
If your only concern was the slight movement (didn't sound like it in your post), then they can fix you right up. Someone local could probably spend a few minutes on it and get it tuned to your taste as well; much cheaper than shipping it back. My response was to the backspring gaps, which sounded like the real issue.

It is surprising how well many people can suite themselves on fine tuning. Many times I can make myself like the feel of a knife better just by thinking about having to spend the time fine tuning it :D There is a sweet spot if you want to spend the time finding it; usually drives me crazy tightening / loosening / tightening / etc.

A little discussion on the subject took place right here a couple years ago.
Click to expand...

I agree the gap looks pretty sloppy. I also agree GEC will take out any play, I have experienced it too. I am of course referring to minimal blade play like you and I spoke about. Like you said, it was more of a fine tuning with my 42.

Personally when I do it, I squeeze the bolster in my vice wrapped in leather. I do this to see if I can even get the play out. Once I see that I can I have a set of hammers. I put sharpie on the pin on both sides for high contrast. I hold one side of the pin flush on an anvil and spread the other side of the pin into the chamfered hole. I flip the knife and repeat. I do this as carefully as possible. Then once the pin is mushroomed perfectly I sand off the rest and buff off the scratches. I have tried to loosen the knives after this and they hold very tight. None of my fine tuning has been imagined though ;)

In every case it was to remove gaps and minimize blade play.

Kevin
 
richstag said:
I agree the gap looks pretty sloppy.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, don't pigeon-hole me into saying it looked sloppy :D
For some reason (an engineer might can explain), the backspring gaps appear much more often on lockbars than backsprings with GEC. Expect it has to do with the required free movement as opposed to fixed tension.
 
I have about 50 Schrade USA LB7's, many have been used, some are N.I.B.(New in Box). None have a gap between the spring and liners. Schrade made literally millions of LB7's. Correct tolerances were the standard for this mass produced knife. GEC could do the same if they wanted to.
roland
 
rprocter said:
I have about 50 Schrade USA LB7's, many have been used, some are N.I.B.(New in Box). None have a gap between the spring and liners. Schrade made literally millions of LB7's. Correct tolerances were the standard for this mass produced knife. GEC could do the same if they wanted to.
roland
Click to expand...

And what country is stamped on the current Schrade's ?

Maybe the problem is that GEC doesn't make millions....
 
richstag said:
Eric,

Wouldn't the case/bose come down to the bushing? If the tolerances are wrong there may be no more room to tighten it down.

Also, I really appreciate you telling us how the shops do this. I also remember Mike telling me about a year ago that the shims used are the reason for play.

That said, I had success removing blade play on a GEC 42 and there was no binding... I also had success on a number of slipjoints. I would not call it a crapshoot. It worked on everyone of my knives.

Kevin
Click to expand...


Kevin,

Shims shouldn't cause play if the correct ones are used. Once the pins are hammered the shims should be extremely tight, so that when they're removed the relieved tension allows the liners to come together a bit against the blade and lever, leaving maybe about .001 to .002 between blade and liner. Just enough for smooth blade movement with no play at all. If there does happen to be play, a light tap or two fixes it. This is much better than having it too tight and then trying to loosen it, which on a lockback can be a real pain. The way you've been fixing 'em is fine, light taps is the key for that method. The crapshoot I was referring to was for those who simply want to squeeze it shut and have a perfect knife afterward. Chances are mighty strong that the pin will protrude and it'll have to be re-peined and finished.

I'm not too familiar with the Case Bose knives since they're WAY out of my measely price range. If a bushing is too wide, the only way you can relieve the play short of taking the knife apart and grinding the bushing is to spread the liners a bit at the bolster ends, which makes the gap smaller and holds the blade in place. This of course would require a refinish of the bolster end. Now this isn't a perfect fix but it does work, although on a pricey knife like that, if it were me, I'd send it back to have it fixed properly. That kind of fix should only be done on a less pricey EDC where you have no other choice. I should also add that this only works on a knife with play in the open position, if there's play when it's closed as well you're out of luck.

Eric
 
Eric,

Thanks so much for all of that! I will stick with what is working for me, but hearing you explain using the shims your way makes a lot of sense. If I wasn't having luck with my way, I would definately try yours. Right now I don't even have a problem knife anyhow :)

I'm putting everything you told me in my memory for a later date though. Very helpful in understanding.

I also would send a Case/Bose right back.

Roland, you are welcome for what its worth.

Kevin
 
Well, one day has passed and there happened some interessting things. All of them were good.

I gonna tell you what happened to me. I wrote an email to my retailer (a non-BFC Dealer so I won´t call the name, not breaking forum rules) and explained the problem. He refunded me the money I spent for the knife without further problems or even questions. I asked him, if I should him back the knife or if wants to see pics of the problem. He told me, I should keep the knife. The costs from shipping, customs, fees etc. and all the same back again to me wouldn´t be correct. So he let me the knife and the money :eek:
I was really surprised! We wrote some emails on and I have to say - this would have never happened in Germany (maybe whole Europe!)! This is what I call costumer service. I told him, I won´t send the knife back to GEC because of the costs and I wanna try to repair it on my own. I really appreciated this man before as a real gentleman and a good person - now even more!

So I did this that morning. I used a vice ;) and a big amount of paper (old newspaper) to protect and absord the force of the vice on the bolsters. All I can say, the side to side bladeplay disappeared - the up and down blade play is still notizeable. The gap is still there, but ok, not that much. Now the knife opens and closes not such smooth as with bladeplay ;) And the blade is no longer centered, but the mean wobbling is gone. I used the vice with very very much sense of care and watched the knife constantly not to overdrive the vice and damage the knife. I used a small hammer for pin which appeared on the outside of the bolster. For sure some polish would be needed.
I know that a profession repair would have brought back a possibly perfect knife - the costs and wait were another tale...

Here are some pics

The gap is still visible, but not that much as it was before

IMG_2181.jpg


And the hammered pivot pin

IMG_2182.jpg


And yes - I have lost GECs warranty on this knife. But this seems a low prize to me on what I might have payed when sending it back again including and adding all the costs...

BTW: I was really surprised that this thread caused so much emotions... Speaking symbolically: "I threw stones down the hill and rocks come downside". As far as I can see, the discussion stayed on a professionel level and noone seems to got offended. It´s a great place here :)
 
Humppa said:
Well, one day has passed and there happened some interessting things. All of them were good.

I gonna tell you what happened to me. I wrote an email to my retailer (a non-BFC Dealer so I won´t call the name, not breaking forum rules) and explained the problem. He refunded me the money I spent for the knife without further problems or even questions. I asked him, if I should him back the knife or if wants to see pics of the problem. He told me, I should keep the knife. The costs from shipping, customs, fees etc. and all the same back again to me wouldn´t be correct. So he let me the knife and the money :eek:
I was really surprised! We wrote some emails on and I have to say - this would have never happened in Germany (maybe whole Europe!)! This is what I call costumer service. I told him, I won´t send the knife back to GEC because of the costs and I wanna try to repair it on my own. I really appreciated this man before as a real gentleman and a good person - now even more!

So I did this that morning. I used a vice ;) and a big amount of paper (old newspaper) to protect and absord the force of the vice on the bolsters. All I can say, the side to side bladeplay disappeared - the up and down blade play is still notizeable. The gap is still there, but ok, not that much. Now the knife opens and closes not such smooth as with bladeplay ;) And the blade is no longer centered, but the mean wobbling is gone. I used the vice with very very much sense of care and watched the knife constantly not to overdrive the vice and damage the knife. I used a small hammer for pin which appeared on the outside of the bolster. For sure some polish would be needed.
I know that a profession repair would have brought back a possibly perfect knife - the costs and wait were another tale...

Here are some pics

The gap is still visible, but not that much as it was before

And yes - I have lost GECs warranty on this knife. But this seems a low prize to me on what I might have payed when sending it back again including and adding all the costs...

BTW: I was really surprised that this thread caused so much emotions... Speaking symbolically: "I threw stones down the hill and rocks come downside". As far as I can see, the discussion stayed on a professionel level and noone seems to got offended. It´s a great place here :)
Click to expand...

I'm glad it worked out for you, Andy. Sounds like your dealer did right by you.
 
Andi,

Great job! Judging by how your last repair came out I'm sure this one'll look fantastic too once you're done with it. That retailer sure sounds like a winner, I've never heard of anyone refunding money like that without at least taking the knife back. It's just incredible. This was a great thread, no offence taken here! :D

Eric
 
Thank you guys!

Eric, I did it the way I did it with my #73, but with much more care not to damage anything because of the lower tension and durability of the lockback.

The retailer is a great guy, believe me. :)
 
Andi,

I'm glad you got the knife OKAY.

The action of the dealer is over the top. It is well deserving of a thread in "the good bad and ugly" my friend.

I would take the time if you haven't my friend.

Kevin
 
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