Is Jesus God?

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awh said:
1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

The passage means that we only see part of the story while we are alive here on earth, but when we die and are face to face with God we will know the whole story, in the same way that God already knows the whole story about us.
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Thank you for the clarification.

Andy
 
awh said:
1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

The passage means that we only see part of the story while we are alive here on earth, but when we die and are face to face with God we will know the whole story, in the same way that God already knows the whole story about us.
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That's a really good, short and concise explanation I can agree with... Nice job.:)
 
timcsaw said:
Amazing how people think isn't it? See the same thing but describe it differently... perceptions built upon their own experiences which are never the same as anyone else's experiances... always fascinating.

It's a "seeing the glass half full of water or half empty" sort of thing... but of course in reality, the glass is neither half full or half empty because in the strictest sense, the class is completely full (half the glass is full of water, the other half of the glass is full of air).:D
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"There is no way you can look at anything without the use of the knowledge that you have of what you are looking at."
U.G. Krishnamurti

Since I'm quoting him anyway.

"My interest is to point out to you that you can walk, and please throw away all those crutches. If you are really handicapped, I wouldn’t advise you to do any such thing. But you are made to feel by other people that you are handicapped so that they could sell you those crutches. Throw them away and you can walk. That’s all that I can say. ‘If I fall....’ - that is your fear. Put the crutches away, and you are not going to fall."
 
awh said:
The big questions are:

Where did we come from?
What should we do while we are here/how should we behave?
Where are we going when we die?
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our mothers womb
free will, we get to choose, and hopefully we learn to choose correctly, more often than not
into the ground (unless cremated)

I find it hard to believe (and extremely ego centric) that our 'soul' or 'being' or 'energy' is so precious that it must preserved for eternity...

and that 'god' is selective, that only a certain type of christian, generally of persuasions developed over the last 60 years or so, are worthy of preservation...my god is all inclusive
 
awh said:
The big questions are:

Where did we come from?
What should we do while we are here/how should we behave?
Where are we going when we die?
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I am very interested in where we came from. History, anthropology, biology, etc. all interest me greatly. Human history is also important, as it is how we have learned from our ancestors and built upon their successes. So, I think that is important.

Likewise, the question of how we should behave and what we should do while we are "here". Social justice, rule of law, fairness, truth, integrity, peace, kindness, empathy.......... All important things to be striven for. These are things in the here and now, and so effect us directly.

Where we are going when we die? Interesting, but for me, ultimately unimportant, as that answer is unobtainable. I'll find out when I get there, maybe. Maybe not. IMO, a waste of time to ponder except in passing. Just my opinion, and personal choice.

Andy
 
I'm not a religious scholar but speaking from my personal research and experience with faith I believe that Jesus is God. I also believe in evolution, which most "Christian religions" object to.

I believe that all humans are eternal, that our conscience existed before we were born and will continue after we die. So then you ask, but what about the lifeforms that existed between apes and humans? Did Neanderthals have souls? How can you believe in one thing when it conflicts with another?

What I believe is that there is more to existence than humans can comprehend. No theory is perfect and adds up 100% of the time. Even if you are PhD biologist evolution will still have its gaps and inconsistencies. The athiest logic follows that evolution is the most perfect and pure explanation for existence based on evidence that humans have ever had, and if all life came from earlier lifeforms there is nothing unique about humans and there is no God, only matter, energy, time, and space.
I tried to believe 100% in evolution but I simply couldn't, there are too many experiences Ive had that science can't explain for evolution to be the answer for all existence. What about the spiritual experiences Ive had? What about all the evidence there is for aliens? What about ghosts? what about other dimensions? What about other universes? Nothing adds up. No theory can answer all my questions. Human's don't have the biological capacity to understand existence. Even if humans lived for 1,000 years, we would all still die with questions unanswered.

I am not trying to preach or evangelize but this is what happened to me. I had always been a Christian but never really understood what it was about. When I was a teenager I went to this church camp and it completely changed my entire outlook on life. The theme of the camp was that in order to be close to God you had to lose yourself. You had to let go of who you are, all your worries, all your fears, all your desires, and all your goals and seek God first. It sounds really corny but every single person at that camp broke down and cried their eyes out. Even the tough guys balled their eyes out.

What made everyone cry is that we all felt the weight of our sin. We all felt how evil we were, how dark we were. You cried because you were disgusted with yourself, with all your evil desires. I thought I was a good person but I saw that in my heart I was just as evil as everyone else. You felt this horrible weight of all the guilt you had, you didn't deserve forgiveness, you deserved death. But what truly broke you down was that while you saw how guilty you were God still loved you and it was love that you didn't earn and didn't deserve. The only feeling I can compare it to is how you would feel if you talked bad about your mother behind her back to your friends at school and then came home to find that she had cooked you your favorite dinner and told you that she loves you and that you'll always be her little boy. That horrible guilt, knowing that you had been mean and nasty and bad mouthed her but she still loved you.

After that camp I think I finally saw what being a Christian was about. Its not about not getting drunk, not having sex, and going to church every Sunday, its about love. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, all your body, and all your strength, and the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor. God is love and when you really experience the life that God intends us to live its amazing. All you feel is love. You love everyone and forgive and forget. what is God? God is love and Jesus is love.
 
KalEl said:
and the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor.
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Neighbor in the biblical sense doesn't mean everyone. It figuratively applies to those that follow or are willing to follow biblical teachings. In the literal sense of course, it applied to those of the region. Foreigners and people of other religions weren't included in the love, and were free to be killed or used as slaves.

I'm happy that most modern day Christians have twisted their religion into a religion of "love" and discarded most of their holy books' teachings. Honestly, I often wonder why they even hang onto the whole of the Bible instead of just making up a new one with only the nice parts and coming up with a reason for the discarding of the rest. Of course it'd be a lot thinner, but on the bright side more Christians might actually bother to read it before shoving it down everyone elses throats.
 
Kiah said:
Neighbor in the biblical sense doesn't mean everyone. It figuratively applies to those that follow or are willing to follow biblical teachings. In the literal sense of course, it applied to those of the region. Foreigners and people of other religions weren't included in the love, and were free to be killed or used as slaves.

I'm happy that most modern day Christians have twisted their religion into a religion of "love" and discarded most of their holy books' teachings. Honestly, I often wonder why they even hang onto the whole of the Bible instead of just making up a new one with only the nice parts and coming up with a reason for the discarding of the rest. Of course it'd be a lot thinner, but on the bright side more Christians might actually bother to read it before shoving it down everyone elses throats.
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Again not a biblical scholar, but what I have gathered from reading the bible every day for the past 8 years is that we are to love everyone, not just other Christians or Jews. If we loved no one else then how could we be like Christ? The bible even tells us to love our enemy, not just our neighbor and to pray for those who curse us. Most Christians I know are arrogant about their faith and don't live as examples of how Christ intended us to live. Religion has killed love.
 
Kiah said:
Neighbor in the biblical sense doesn't mean everyone. It figuratively applies to those that follow or are willing to follow biblical teachings. In the literal sense of course, it applied to those of the region. Foreigners and people of other religions weren't included in the love, and were free to be killed or used as slaves.
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Ever hear of the good Samaritan ? The parable ? Pretty much shoots that statement of yours full of holes. I don't even know where you came up with that idea really ? Jesus certainly never said anything about only loving "my followers" it was "mankind" - all inclusive. I'm not even a christian, but i know his teachings better than that.

On the other hand the koran, surrah and hadith specifcally demand that believers practice lying, killing, raping, subjugating and enslaving those who are not islamic. We see it - not just in verse - but in the constant actions of it's followers around the globe everyday. Big difference right there.
 
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One example. I'll even color code it.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
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I can fill the page, if you'd like.
 
Kiah said:
One example. I'll even color code it.



I can fill the page, if you'd like.
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Nice misrepresentation of a verse right there. Luckily we can figure out what really is going on by checking !!

Jesus was telling the parable of the man who left on a journey to receive a Kingdom but after he left some of the servants who had served under him in his household sent letters to arrive ahead of him that they didn't want this man to be given a kingdom for they would not have him to rule over them. He received the promised Kingdom anyhow and when he returned he gave instructions for those who supported him to be given provinces of their own to rule over but that those who would've kept him from his promised Kingdom to be brought in and killed before him.

So that statement that you try to attribute as a command to kill from Jesus, is simply a quote from a character in Parable.

If you are going to fill the page you might want to check your sources, that last one was a bust.

It seems like a really wacko thing to even assert - since there are no recorded killings of people in front of Jesus by his followers.:confused:
 
HairahSitna said:
On the other hand the koran, surrah and hadith specifcally demand that believers practice lying, killing, raping, subjugating and enslaving those who are not islamic. We see it - not just in verse - but in the constant actions of it's followers around the globe everyday. Big difference right there.
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Missed your edit.

The Bible has plenty of the same teachings. It's just that most modern Christians have abandoned them, and many Muslims have not. The Koran and the Bible are from the same regional religious base and share more than most want to accept. The fact that many Muslims haven't strayed as far from their particular version's teachings as most Christians have is a cultural issue.
 
Kiah said:
Missed your edit.

The Bible has plenty of the same teachings. It's just that most modern Christians have abandoned them, and many Muslims have not. The Koran and the Bible are from the same regional religious base and share more than most want to accept. The fact that many Muslims haven't strayed as far from their particular version's teachings as most Christians have is a cultural issue.
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No it doesn't. If it did you would "fill the page" like you offered to earlier.
You are really, really wrong and should do some studies obviously. Regional religious base - you just make that up ? lol Are hindu and buddhist the same regional religious base ? They believe in completely different things yet come form the same region.
 
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HairahSitna said:
Nice misrepresentation of a verse right there. Luckily we can figure out what really is going on by checking !!

Jesus was telling the parable of the man who left on a journey to receive a Kingdom but after he left some of the servants who had served under him in his household sent letters to arrive ahead of him that they didn't want this man to be given a kingdom for they would not have him to rule over them. He received the promised Kingdom anyhow and when he returned he gave instructions for those who supported him to be given provinces of their own to rule over but that those who would've kept him from his promised Kingdom to be brought in and killed before him.

So that statement that you try to attribute as a command to kill from Jesus, is simply a quote from a character in Parable.

If you are going to fill the page you might want to check your sources, that last one was a bust.

It seems like a really wacko thing to even assert - since there are no recorded killings of people in front of Jesus by his followers.:confused:
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You're free, of course, to interpret it as such. Of course it's a parable, but the relationship is obvious in context.

Do you really deny that there are no instances of commanded killing in the Bible or even killings by God himself? My point was that the Bible is not as flowery as people proclaim it to be. The murder of non-believers, killing women and children, genocide, etc. is there. The rules are just as strict as the "evil" Koran, they're just ignored. Of course the NT is nicer than than the OT, but keeping the good stories from that and explaining away the bad is nonsense.
 
People often like to cite violent verses from the bible out of context. And while God is love, God is no pushover, in the old testament he either directly or by command killed many people who He found evil. Thou shalt not kill but you better believe David went and killed Goliath and then went on to kill many other people but out of all the people he killed he only sinned in the murder of bathshebas husband. I used to wonder how a God who was so loving could command so many massive killings of people in the old testament but I realized one day that if evil people overtook the world who would God give his spirit to? God delights in us, we are his creation. But when a creation is not doing what it was created to do, there is no delight. God killed every human except for one family with a flood because people were so wicked. God contemplated killing humans off altogether but he loves us so much that he made a way for us to have eternal life.
 
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