Is Jesus God?

[Andrew Colglazier]

This is what I don't buy into. God didn't do anything, or make any decisions for me. I made them. I don't understand the people who say "I was down on my luck, addicted to drugs, going down the wrong path. Then I found God and it turned me around." I don't understand that. Please explain to me how God did anything to directly affect your life. You are the one who changed. You are the one who realized you were living a terrible life with terrible ideals. If you changed at all, it is all your doing. If you changed, you wanted to, not God. It says more about you, than it does God.

I have some relatives who were have a lot of trouble with one of their teen-aged daughters. She was acting out in a lot of ways which were dangerous to her health and well being.

Eventually my relatives intervened and took concrete steps to remove their daughter from the negative influences which were causing much of the trouble. They successfully prevented any further harm to their daughter, and they did so in such a way that their relationship with their daughter was also unharmed, in fact it was enhanced.

These relatives are very religious. Throughout the process they talked about all their prayers and the guidance they got from Biblical readings and etc. But in the end, they took action, made changes, and corrected the problems which were developing.

In a conversation with one of them, it was again stated that they were thankful to god for having rectified the problem, saving their daughter from great difficulties. I told them that they should take credit for being good parents and acting as such.

They saw the problem. They considered what actions should be taken. They put those actions in motion and did the right thing. And yet, they refused to acknowledge their own abilities and successes. This is ........... just weird to me.

Perhaps Christians do this because if they acknowledge doing something on their own, they commit the sin of pride. Whatever. I see it as just being honest.

Andy

 

[Howard Wallace]

Given the size of this thread after only a few days there is a lot of pent-up energy around these topics. Here in the Cantina the discussion has stayed in this thread by request so it would not flood out the other discussions. ( I would like to thank all of you for your consideration on that.)

However, given the diversity of topics already discussed here, a forum might be a better vehicle for such discussions than a single thread. I don’t think such a forum presently exists at Bladeforums. Whine and Cheese may be a bit too rude for serious discussions. Politics (the other subject which along with religion is not supposed to be mentioned in polite conversation) has its own forum. Sometimes religion has been shoehorned in there but in general it is not welcomed by the regulars as politics alone is a big ground to cover.

Perhaps it is time for some of you with a lot of energy around this topic to propose to Spark a religion forum, and offer to moderate. Evidence in support would be the number of Bladeforum members who have participated in this thread in a short time. There is apparent interest in exploring these topics, just as there is interest in exploring political topics.

The existence of a religion forum would also give a place where such discussions could be moved to without squashing them. This gives a more palatable alternative for moderators in the case where the religious concerns surface in another forum not explicitly devoted to the subject. It also gives readers who aren’t interested an easy way to sort through topics not of interest.

Do any of you who have displayed such energy and enthusiasm in this thread want to focus some of that energy on a proposal to establish and moderate a religion forum on Bladeforums, similar to the Politics forum?

 

[timcsaw]

I have some relatives who were have a lot of trouble with one of their teen-aged daughters. She was acting out in a lot of ways which were dangerous to her health and well being.

Eventually my relatives intervened and took concrete steps to remove their daughter from the negative influences which were causing much of the trouble. They successfully prevented any further harm to their daughter, and they did so in such a way that their relationship with their daughter was also unharmed, in fact it was enhanced.

These relatives are very religious. Throughout the process they talked about all their prayers and the guidance they got from Biblical readings and etc. But in the end, they took action, made changes, and corrected the problems which were developing.

In a conversation with one of them, it was again stated that they were thankful to god for having rectified the problem, saving their daughter from great difficulties. I told them that they should take credit for being good parents and acting as such.

They saw the problem. They considered what actions should be taken. They put those actions in motion and did the right thing. And yet, they refused to acknowledge their own abilities and successes. This is ........... just weird to me.

Perhaps Christians do this because if they acknowledge doing something on their own, they commit the sin of pride. Whatever. I see it as just being honest.

Andy

I'm not sure if you asked them, but did they pray to God concerning their problems? Did they ask God to help them to find solutions? Did they pray that options that they could pursue to help the situation would be shown to them? Did they pray for wisdom and strength in dealing with such a difficult situation. Did they pray that God would intervene and help their daughter and prod her along to a successful outcome? If they are strong, faithful Christians, I suspect that they did.

I understand how you would see the results of their problem solved solely by them alone. That is how it appears. They on the other hand, have invited Christ INTO them, and have accepted Him as a God that will help them if they ask him to help. If they prayed in earnest, and sincerely asked God for help, they WILL believe that God answered their prayers. So yes, they will understand that THEY made the choices and decisions which helped to solve the problem, but they will also know that God helped to guide and council them in their decision making. Perhaps God even "touched" their daughters heart in some way to make her more accepting of the help she was given. Perhaps God opened options and opportunities to them that might not have existed without their prayers and His help.

To outsiders, it may appear that it was "them" alone who did the work, to them, and to another devout Christian, we will thank God for helping to resolve the problem.... that's just the way it is once you accept Christ into your heart and life. He becomes a living part of you. I expect that this also sounds weird to non-Christians but that's understandable and it's OK... We understand that non-Christians don't have Christ within them, so of course they can't understand what it's like. Similarly, a person who has never seen their baby born into the world, can't understand the "new kind of love" that enters into the lives of the parents... a kind of love that no one can REALLY understand until they've watched their own baby born, and find themselves "receiving" a new kind of love enter their body. A new, different kind of love and attachment like they've never known before. When one sincerely asks Christ to join them with all their heart (more than just an intellectual asking), and Christ enters your life, you know it... and you have no doubt about it. And your life will change.

I don't know how to explain it beyond that... just as I would have difficulty explaining the new kind of love I felt after seeing my son or daughter born to someone who hadn't experienced it... it's kind of like trying to explain what a peach tastes like to someone who had never eaten one... it's difficult.

I don't expect that my explanation will have changed your view that it's weird, but I've tried to let you know why they and other Christians don't see it as weird at all... we know that God is with us, and that he loves us, and that he will answer our prayers. I hope this will help your understanding a bit Andy, and I mean that in all sincerity. My intent is not to change your beliefs, but just to try to offer a bit more of how we believe, feel and understand God's role in our lives

ON EDIT: Concerning prayers, I wanted to add that we also accept that sometimes when we ask God for "something", He will say no. And we accept the no answer as readily as we accept the yes. 1 Thessalonians 5:18 says (bold mine) "In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Jesus Christ concerning you." I (we) accept the "no" answers to prayer, as well as the "yes" answers.

 

[Ultimate]

They saw the problem. They considered what actions should be taken. They put those actions in motion and did the right thing. And yet, they refused to acknowledge their own abilities and successes. This is ........... just weird to me.

My thoughts exactly.

Do any of you who have displayed such energy and enthusiasm in this thread want to focus some of that energy on a proposal to establish and moderate a religion forum on Bladeforums, similar to the Politics forum?

I think a religion forum should be created here at Bladeforums, just as the Politics forum has been created. I would support a proposal attempting to do so.

 

[Shrodinger's Cat]

Peace be to you as well.

....and with the Father


What I find a bit disturbing is people speaking for God, and on his behalf. That would seem to imply they are one and the same, 'god like'.

The fact that ones faith is diminished and relegated to a chat room topic tells me that is a talking point, more akin to politics or sports, than a spiritual belief and way of life.
It just seems to cheapen it.

 

[Shrodinger's Cat]

The old testament is not the testament of the Christians.

really?
they read from it all the time in the Catholic Church...
or are Catholics not Christian?

 

[Shrodinger's Cat]

"Revelation may be defined as the communication of some truth by God to a rational creature through means which are beyond the ordinary course of nature. The truths revealed may be such as are otherwise inaccessible to the human mind — mysteries, which even when revealed, the intellect of man is incapable of fully penetrating."

When God comes into your life there is the distinct experience of being shown something by a force outside of yourself that for some inexplicable reason has entered your life. This is in part why faith is so difficult to discuss in a detached and logical way. For many but not all Christians, the first stages of this revelation experience occur at a hopeless or broken down time in their lives.

much like a nervous breakdown...you hit bottom before you rebound
some do it with psychotherapy, some drugs, some 'new age' philosophy (born again christians are considerded a new age thing by some), to each their own, but I think it does not do faith justice
the argument is that this is not a real solution, but a crutch, a placebo, a diversion from the real problem...

imho faith should be a positive thing, one born out of choice, not the result of desperation and hopelessness, turned to because the person has exhausted all personal resources, and instead of seeking help from family/riends/healthcare, he seeks it from an imaginary source...many people turn to faith in a moment of weakness, when they are vulnerable and easily influenced, and have shut down all systems and are easily filled with ideas that are not their own volition...and are preyed upon those in the name of god...the worse of the worst...

I think there is a huge diffeence in the way faith is practiced/approached/implemented between someone who was raised with it from young, in an open and positive way, and someone who stumbles upon it during some episode of life crisis...one can make choices, evaluate, the other must have it or possibly lose their mind...

 

[Woods Walker]

really?
they read from it all the time in the Catholic Church...
or are Catholics not Christian?

Sometimes people with the most in common also have the biggest issues with each other.

 

[timcsaw]

really?
they read from it all the time in the Catholic Church...
or are Catholics not Christian?

Yes, really. The old testament is not the testament that Christians follow (there were no Christians alive during the old testament times). Christians follow the teachings of Christ in the new testament. In the new testament, Christ refers us back to the old testament in His teachings to give us examples and to help us understand His teachings in the New Testament.

An analogy I've used is it's walking into a movie thats 2/3 over. You sit down and watch all of the various characters on the screen go through the final, exciting, awe inspiring conclusion of the story... the big exciting finish, but you really won't understand the excitement and feel the impact of the big finish because you didn't see the first 2/3 of the movie. During that first 2/3 of the movie, the main characters were introduced, the plots were laid out, you learn who the good guys are, who the bad guys are, who the hero might be and who all of the rest of the characters are and the parts they play in the story. Since you didn't see the first 2/3 of the movie, you have to ask others what just happened during the finale of the story... "Who was they guy?", "Was he a good guy?", "Why did that happen?", "Who was that lady, and why did she shoot that guy?", and so on. The impact of the ending of the movie might not make sense if you didn't understand what went on in the first part of the movie... you might not understand the HUGE impact that the big finish had on those that HAD seen the whole movie from the beginning.

Now look at the Old Testament as the first 2/3 of the movie, and the New Testament as the glorious, exciting ending to the movie. Christ (in the New Testament), refers back to the first 2/3 of the movie to tell us whats going on in the exciting ending. HE tells us what is important to understand and offers instructions using the Old Testament examples.

======================

Yes, Catholics are of a "Christian" religion... so are Mormons and Jehovah's Witness... But to me, I find the three of those Christian religions to be as foreign to what I believe as is Hinduism, or Buddhism.... They are NOT what I believe and follow as an Evangelical (Born Again) Christian. I have no book of Mormon in my bible... I do not find it necessary to call on Christ's mother Mary to intercede to Jesus for me. I have direct communication to the Saviour (no priests need to forgive my sins, no mother Mary involved). I respect the Catholic religion and it can save many souls, but it's just not what I and many others believe.

Catholicism is probably the most "understood" of all of the Christian religions, but it is not very similar in many ways (an understatement) to what evangelical Christians believe. It's a common obstacle that we often have to overcome and we understand the confusion.

 

[JackHammer]

I believe in no organized religion as they are all highly suspect. For a long time I believed in nothing and figured that religion is just man's inability to deal with the fact that he is finite and needs to believe he has infinite possibilities. The concept that I would not exist forever was OK with me. But as I deal in scientific explainations for everything, I do wonder about how science accepts the Big Bang Theory. I mean, if it is correct and current evidence tends to support it, who kicked the ball off in the beginning?

 

[timcsaw]

Given the size of this thread after only a few days there is a lot of pent-up energy around these topics. Here in the Cantina the discussion has stayed in this thread by request so it would not flood out the other discussions. ( I would like to thank all of you for your consideration on that.)

However, given the diversity of topics already discussed here, a forum might be a better vehicle for such discussions than a single thread. I don’t think such a forum presently exists at Bladeforums. Whine and Cheese may be a bit too rude for serious discussions. Politics (the other subject which along with religion is not supposed to be mentioned in polite conversation) has its own forum. Sometimes religion has been shoehorned in there but in general it is not welcomed by the regulars as politics alone is a big ground to cover.

Perhaps it is time for some of you with a lot of energy around this topic to propose to Spark a religion forum, and offer to moderate. Evidence in support would be the number of Bladeforum members who have participated in this thread in a short time. There is apparent interest in exploring these topics, just as there is interest in exploring political topics.

The existence of a religion forum would also give a place where such discussions could be moved to without squashing them. This gives a more palatable alternative for moderators in the case where the religious concerns surface in another forum not explicitly devoted to the subject. It also gives readers who aren’t interested an easy way to sort through topics not of interest.

Do any of you who have displayed such energy and enthusiasm in this thread want to focus some of that energy on a proposal to establish and moderate a religion forum on Bladeforums, similar to the Politics forum?

This might not be a bad idea, but for one thing.

Do you honestly think a forum for religious discussions would be without problems? Do you think for example that two Christians could start a discussion in a religious forum to talk about what they each believe a particular verse in the bible means to each of them, without some nay-sayer jumping into the discussion to tell them that their bible is full of crap and that their religious beliefs are just a crutch? Do you really think that the atheists and agnostics would stay away from such a discussion? Or, as is most often the case, would they be drawn to it like flies to honey?

The answers to my questions may be evident in this very thread.

How about this... Start a religion forum and select 3 moderators of three different religious persuasions and give those moderators the same ability to give infractions and ban people who interfere with the discussions (based on a unique set of rules posted in a sticky like every other forum) just like moderators in every other forum. Agreed? Any takers? Anyone?

The sharks below the plank would probably find themselves full to the gills.

 

[Shrodinger's Cat]

that is not correct
Catholics are Christians
and they follow the teachings/faith of the Holy Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Ghost
Jesus is the Son of God, but is NOT God...he was a man...whom God used to make a point, or so it goes...the Jewish wouldn't go that far...
this story includes both the new and old testaments
that is one of the issues with the new christians or born agains, they interpret the Bible to fit their narrow definitions, but proclaim it to be accurate and the ONLY interpretation...

I'm sure Jews, Muslims and Catholics find the born agains kind of a 'strange concept'

Yes, really. The old testament is not the testament that Christians follow (there were no Christians alive during the old testament times). Christians follow the teachings of Christ in the new testament. In the new testament, Christ refers us back to the old testament in His teachings to give us examples and to help us understand His teachings in the New Testament.

An analogy I've used is it's walking into a movie thats 2/3 over. You sit down and watch all of the various characters on the screen go through the final, exciting, awe inspiring conclusion of the story... the big exciting finish, but you really won't understand the excitement and feel the impact of the big finish because you didn't see the first 2/3 of the movie. During that first 2/3 of the movie, the main characters were introduced, the plots were laid out, you learn who the good guys are, who the bad guys are, who the hero might be and who all of the rest of the characters are and the parts they play in the story. Since you didn't see the first 2/3 of the movie, you have to ask others what just happened during the finale of the story... "Who was they guy?", "Was he a good guy?", "Why did that happen?", "Who was that lady, and why did she shoot that guy?", and so on. The impact of the ending of the movie might not make sense if you didn't understand what went on in the first part of the movie... you might not understand the HUGE impact that the big finish had on those that HAD seen the whole movie from the beginning.

Now look at the Old Testament as the first 2/3 of the movie, and the New Testament as the glorious, exciting ending to the movie. Christ (in the New Testament), refers back to the first 2/3 of the movie to tell us whats going on in the exciting ending. HE tells us what is important to understand and offers instructions using the Old Testament examples.

======================

Yes, Catholics are of a "Christian" religion... so are Mormons and Jehovah's Witness... But to me, I find the three of those Christian religions to be as foreign to what I believe as is Hinduism, or Buddhism.... They are NOT what I believe and follow as an Evangelical (Born Again) Christian. I have no book of Mormon in my bible... I do not find it necessary to call on Christ's mother Mary to intercede to Jesus for me. I have direct communication to the Saviour (no priests need to forgive my sins, no mother Mary involved). I respect the Catholic religion and it can save many souls, but it's just not what I and many others believe.

Catholicism is probably the most "understood" of all of the Christian religions, but it is not very similar in many ways (an understatement) to what evangelical Christians believe. It's a common obstacle that we often have to overcome and we understand the confusion.

 

[timcsaw]

I believe in no organized religion as they are all highly suspect. For a long time I believed in nothing and figured that religion is just man's inability to deal with the fact that he is finite and needs to believe he has infinite possibilities. The concept that I would not exist forever was OK with me. But as I deal in scientific explainations for everything, I do wonder about how science accepts the Big Bang Theory. I mean, if it is correct and current evidence tends to support it, who kicked the ball off in the beginning?

An interesting point. Personally, I believe that we will eventually find a Unification Theory, but as of yet, the "proof" just hasn't been reveled/found by us yet... but I think that at some point in the future the proof WILL be shown/discovered.

Now, in relation to my Christian beliefs, some do not believe in the bible, or in God, or in Jesus Christ, and I do understand that and don't hold that against anyone. I also believe that at some point in the future the proof of God and Jesus Christ will be shown/discovered by everyone when Christ returns again to earth as the bible has told us He will. Then we will have the proof that so many needed but it will be too late for them and I REALLY, REALLY hate the thought of that.

Enough for this morning from me... I appreciate all who have been considerate and polite in their conversations here.

 

[Shrodinger's Cat]

I believe in no organized religion as they are all highly suspect. For a long time I believed in nothing and figured that religion is just man's inability to deal with the fact that he is finite and needs to believe he has infinite possibilities. The concept that I would not exist forever was OK with me. But as I deal in scientific explainations for everything, I do wonder about how science accepts the Big Bang Theory. I mean, if it is correct and current evidence tends to support it, who kicked the ball off in the beginning?

the assumtion that there was a 'beginning' and there will be an 'end' is the problem (I guess this arises from the fear of mortality and is akin to being born and dying, which is finite)
perhaps not, it's a very difficult concept, but infinity does exist
before the big bang, perhaps there was contraction, and it is a cyclic event
just becasue we can't explain something, a 'god' does not need invented to calm our insecurity or fear arising from our inability to understand it...it's OK not to know everything
the same was done for chemistry and electricity before it was quantified..." it's magic, or the devil, or god "

none of this precludes a god, nor does it prove it

 

[Woods Walker]

a religion forum on Bladeforums, similar to the Politics forum?

It didn't work out very well over at 24hourcampfire. It just degenerated into a Catholic/Mormon bashing hate fest and the Admin/Mods had to shut the forum down. I seen the same thing happen in other forums as well. Just something to consider.

 

[timcsaw]

that is not correct
Catholics are Christians
and they follow the teachings/faith of the Holy Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Ghost
Jesus is the Son of God, but is NOT God...he was a man...whom God used to make a point, or so it goes...the Jewish wouldn't go that far...
this story includes both the new and old testaments
that is one of the issues with the new christians or born agains, they interpret the Bible to fit their narrow definitions, but proclaim it to be accurate and the ONLY interpretation...

I'm sure Jews, Muslims and Catholics find the born agains kind of a 'strange concept'

Yes, as I said, Catholicism IS a Christian religion... I've never said it wasn't a Christian religion. They believe in Christ, that he was Crucified for our sins. But for me, I find the many of their religious practices very different from what I believe. With the exception of believing in Christ, we are almost as different as night and day. Catholicism doesn't come close (other than that belief in Christ), to what I believe as an evangelical Christian. That's why I say that TO ME, it is as different from what I believe, as is Hinduism or any other religion (other than a common belief in Christ we are VERY different). But I'm fine with that, and I don't condemn them, or challenge what they believe, because in the end, they do have Christ. Same with Mormons. I've lived in Utah and found them to be some of the most dedicated, devout people I've ever had the good fortune to know... I just disagree with them on some points concerning our faith in Christ and God's word in the bible. All Christian religions are not the same, but we all have one thing in common that each of us appreciates about the other and that's Jesus Christ. I know lots of people who have "converted" from other faiths to the Evangelical faith, and I'm sure that some have "converted" among themselves. Those of the Jewish religion just don't believe that the Messiah has come yet, and I do believe that Christ was Messiah... so we worship God differently. Muslims have a God they call Allah and see Christ as just another prophet.... Not what I believe, but that's OK with me... they like the rest of us have free will to choose.

There are many differences that I do find strange about Catholicism and Mormonism, and other Christian faiths, and I'm sure they find the differences in my faith odd also... I'm cool with that. Catholics for example still use a cross which shows Christ nailed to it... we don't because Christ has risen and isn't on the cross any longer... a minor point, but an example nonetheless. I don't mind anyone's difference in belief or faith as long as they don't try to kill me or try to take away my free will to accept or deny their beliefs (or lack of beliefs). We're a pretty easy going bunch for the most part. I/we each believe that we have an individual relationship with God without much need of mortal man's influence to get in our way.

 

[bennyb]

Given the size of this thread after only a few days there is a lot of pent-up energy around these topics. Here in the Cantina the discussion has stayed in this thread by request so it would not flood out the other discussions. ( I would like to thank all of you for your consideration on that.)

However, given the diversity of topics already discussed here, a forum might be a better vehicle for such discussions than a single thread. I don’t think such a forum presently exists at Bladeforums. Whine and Cheese may be a bit too rude for serious discussions. Politics (the other subject which along with religion is not supposed to be mentioned in polite conversation) has its own forum. Sometimes religion has been shoehorned in there but in general it is not welcomed by the regulars as politics alone is a big ground to cover.



Perhaps it is time for some of you with a lot of energy around this topic to propose to Spark a religion forum, and offer to moderate. Evidence in support would be the number of Bladeforum members who have participated in this thread in a short time. There is apparent interest in exploring these topics, just as there is interest in exploring political topics.

The existence of a religion forum would also give a place where such discussions could be moved to without squashing them. This gives a more palatable alternative for moderators in the case where the religious concerns surface in another forum not explicitly devoted to the subject. It also gives readers who aren’t interested an easy way to sort through topics not of interest.

Do any of you who have displayed such energy and enthusiasm in this thread want to focus some of that energy on a proposal to establish and moderate a religion forum on Bladeforums, similar to the Politics forum?

Howard, I sent Spark a message expressing my willingness to moderate a Christianity forum. I think it would be a great idea. Is he the right person to approach for this? I think that a place where christians can talk and debate and where anyone can ask honest questions about Christianity would be well recieved here. A lot of people spend a lot of time here. To give people a place to go to discuss, maturely, the deeper aspects of existence would serve people well.

 

[Kiah]

Howard, I sent Spark a message expressing my willingness to moderate a Christianity forum. I think it would be a great idea. Is he the right person to approach for this? I think that a place where christians can talk and debate and where anyone can ask honest questions about Christianity would be well recieved here. A lot of people spend a lot of time here. To give people a place to go to discuss, maturely, the deeper aspects of existence would serve people well.

I wouldn't get my hopes up. Spark is reluctant enough to have the PA here. The chances of him opening a religion forum is slim to none. A specific one, into the negatives.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Howard, I sent Spark a message expressing my willingness to moderate a Christianity forum. I think it would be a great idea. Is he the right person to approach for this? I think that a place where christians can talk and debate and where anyone can ask honest questions about Christianity would be well recieved here. A lot of people spend a lot of time here. To give people a place to go to discuss, maturely, the deeper aspects of existence would serve people well.

I'm not Howard, but. . .

Don't count on it. You've seen from the threads you started on this topic that one got moved w/o notice to W&C, the other turned into a flame fest.

My suggestion, is maybe to put out feelers for people who would like to discuss such things and sign up for one of the many places that offer free discussion boards.

One other suggestion: no matter what religion you have, if you ask a simple question like this, which simply asks for a yes or no answer, and maybe an explanation as to why, and instead you get people who come in guns blazing, railing about how stupid christians are, how much they hate christianity, etc, here's a hint: they have an axe to grind. Most often they do not have rational reasons why, it's usually bolstered by emotional experiences and strawman arguments that, although they've been answered a million times, they just don't want to accept the answer. Not that the answer isn't valid, it';s just not the one they want. I say all of this to say that you're not going to change their mind, and they simply won't stop their railing, so let it go, and let it fizzle out.

Call it not "casting pearls before swine" or "dusting off your feet and moving on" if you want, but even Jesus himself said not to bother with such. Deliver the message, then leave them to their devices. Just a friendly suggestion, re-read the gospels and Act again. It's your job to give the message, not make them listen.

 

[CaptChance]

I believe that Jesus Christ is both man and God. Fully human and fully God. God the Father allowed this in order to create a way to draw us closer to Him. All God has ever wanted, and this is shown in Genesis, is to have fellowship with His creation. Sin broke that fellowship and God gave us the way to come to Him as His children, His creation. Jesus is that way. While I would never tell someone that their religious beliefs are wrong, per se. I would tell them what I believe and let them come to their own conclusion. I prefer to live out my beleifs so tht everyone can see what I believe instead of pounding on people with right and wrong and the Bible. In my humble opinion, Christianity is not about a formalized, structered set of rules, ceremonies and practices. It is about having a relationship with the God who not only created us, but gave us His only begotten Son to suffer and die for us in order for us to be able to have that relationship with Him.