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KMG horizontal grinder

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by HSC ///, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    I have a new 2x48 horizontal grinder 4" rubber contact drive wheel.
    This thing is awful at tracking and I've shredded 8 belts as the belt jumps like I've never seen before.

    I spoke to Beaumont and they advised creating a crown on the drive wheel by adding several layers of electrical tape in the middle to create a crown.

    I'm learning I need to start sat slow RPM and run the belt manually first but the tracking is simply terrible.
    The belt jumps up or down and before you can figure out what's happening the belt starts tearing itself up.

    This grinder is not like your standard 2x72 where you just throw on a belt and it finds center.

    Anyone have this grinder and figure out any improvements on the tracking?

    thanks.
     
  2. Josh Rider

    Josh Rider KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Sep 2, 2014
    Yeah I've heard of electric tape working, never from a company that makes grinders. Give me a break, is sending it back an option? Sorry that just seems pathetic considering the money you spent Harbeer.
     
  3. knife to a gunfight

    knife to a gunfight KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    I really hope I'm misreading this, but let me make sure I have this right:

    You bought a brand new KMG horizontal belt grinder (48" configuration), with a 4" rubber drive wheel, also from Beaumont Metal Works, and the belt is tracking so terribly that you're ruining the belts? You then called Beaumont for a solution, and crowning the wheel with electrical tape was their suggestion?
     
  4. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    I wish I was making this up :-(
    He suggested maybe sending back the drive wheel for rounding or something. I don't have time for that.

    The good news is I bought it new for a price to good to mention. But nevertheless I'm not happy about the tracking. I did not buy from them direct. But the machine was brand new. It came with the regular when and I exchanged for the rubber contact wheel.

    I could not recommend this machine at the new asking price, that's for sure.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Josh Rider

    Josh Rider KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Sep 2, 2014
    Just checking, but is your motor spinning the right way? Where the belt moves towards your tracking wheel first?
     
  6. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    Yes clockwise facing the front. That was the first question they asked me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. bbingenheimer

    bbingenheimer KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    631
    Mar 4, 2010
    Harbeer, I have the same machine. Purchased new last summer from KMG. I was at first terribly disappointed The tracking was awful. I even split my belts to 1 inch wide , avoid the issues you just posted pics of and that help from tearing up the edge or braking belts in two. After about a month of dealing with this I finally converted the machine to the 72" belts and have very little issues now. The tracking is still touchy, but it is a lot better machine now.


    Bing
     
  8. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    Thanks. Good to know. I hadn't considered splitting the belts in half and that would help

    I'm not against getting the ext plate for 72 but I like the size of 48 in that it takes up less space.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. knife to a gunfight

    knife to a gunfight KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    So you have the original crowned aluminum drive wheel as well? Does that wheel work ok?
    I really don't think that lack of crown on the drive wheel should be causing the problems that you're having. Is your motor shaft square to the table/base? Are the other wheels solidly secured and rotating freely?
    Hows the belt tension? Is the spring towards its maximum compression? Is there a way to adjust so that it is?
     
  10. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    No I returned the alum wheel.

    Motor is square. Simple bolt up. All else good

    They seemed to acknowledge on the phone that my described problem was known and that tracking jumping was the nature of this beast.

    It's worst with the smallest diameter wheel in use.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. knife to a gunfight

    knife to a gunfight KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    While running, if you manually push the tracking arm outwards to increase belt tension, does this help?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Matthew Gregory

    Matthew Gregory Chief Executive in charge of Entertainment Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jan 12, 2005
    Everything Drew is asking is the right path. I know you know this, Harbeer. I also know how frustrated you are. Like a fool, I threw away all the measurements I took when I was fixing my vertical KMG. Just for grins, consider gabbing a 1-2-3 block and just placing it next to all the various wheels - see if and how skewed they are. We both know a tracking wheel shouldn't need to be very crowned if everything is square. It's not just the motor shaft - it's all of them. Gotta be square or that belt will perpetually be diving and jumping.



     
  13. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    I haven't tried that but the gas spring is strong.

    To further explain. Once u get the tracking sorted out the belt tracks fine. It's when u change belts that is a problem. If u goto a different belt the belt jumps an like 1/2" quickly and rides up the small wheel and shreds the belt before u can figure out what's happening.

    Once u dial in the tracking on a given belt its fine. The challenge is to get there without losing that belt.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. knife to a gunfight

    knife to a gunfight KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    What kind of belts are you using? Sounds almost like the belts are stretching, or that the spring isn't settled to full tension right away.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    No I tried stiff backed norton and flexible others.

    Frankly I really thinks it's the design of the machine. And from my phone call their seemed to acknowledge (indirectly) there is a problem.

    Appreciate your troubleshooting here. But as you see earlier Bruce had the same issue as me. I was hoping to get a solution from someone who has one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Pittknife

    Pittknife KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    872
    Oct 1, 2013
    Here are a couple things that will help, as I designed my own horizontal and ran into these issues:

    1. When you put your belt on, rotate the drive wheel by hand to let the belt track and adjust, if it gets close to hitting readjust the belt then spin again (its a pain). You can't put pressure on the belt it will pull it off track and you won't see the true tracking.

    2. The idler wheel, platen, small wheel holder and drive wheel has to be dead square, sometimes they are not.

    3. The tensioning systems the kmg is rotational on a horizontal base, that works on a vertical but horrible for horizontal. The reason the 72" works better than the 48" is due to length, which allows it more slop to adjust. The way I'm solving this is redesigning the tensioning direction to a linear.

    4. Add some vibrate to the tensioning screw, it can slip at times.

    I was in the same boat with Matt G., Beaumont should not be selling these with known issues, like their regular grinders. Get a northridge with the tilt base, a ton better.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  17. Pittknife

    Pittknife KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    872
    Oct 1, 2013
    BTW,

    I know 3 makers that bought them and had tracking issues and one had to return it 3x for various issues. You are not alone and that is why I decided to design my own and had my machinist friend help me fabricate it. I quickly figured out the issues with the design, not sure why a professional company would not have figured out the same issues.
     
  18. Brock Cutlery

    Brock Cutlery KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    925
    Jan 10, 2015
    This is sad to hear Harbeer. :\
    Sounds like it's not quite ready for prime time.

    Can you set the speed to slowest and track it before it tears the belt up?
     
  19. HSC ///

    HSC /// KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 7, 2012
    the good news is I bought this new from a new knife-maker that suddenly passed away so I got it for less than a 1/3rd the MSRP.

    yes I'm dong #1 and it's a pain.

    I have an Esteem with the flipping plates but I never use it in horizontal. I'm hoping to sell that soon and get a TW-90 as I want the surface grinder attachment,

    I have 4 grinders total because I don't like to change out wheels and arms etc.

    yes, but the tracking can be different at a higher speeds I think, and at higher speeds it jumps and dives pretty fast and shreds the belt before you can do anything.

    I haven't used this grinder much, just the few times I used it I shredded a belt every-time,
    I was more shocked and frustrated to the point where I didn't even think clearly as to what to do

    The machine came with a few belts which I have been using up.
    This came about because I used up those few belts and bought about $80 worth of 2x48

    anyway, this isn't the end of the world.
    What I've learned here is that it's not me that is doing something wrong :)

    thanks everyone.
     
  20. golfer1

    golfer1

    158
    Nov 24, 2016
    If you have a 3 or 4' straight edge, place it along the drive wheel and the grinding wheel and see if they are perfectly aligned. I would guess either the drive wheel is out of alignment or it is somehow loose on the shaft or the same of the grinding wheel. They should be square to each other and the motor shaft and should not wobble in any way.
    I don't have a KMG but my grinder will allow me to change belts with very little or no adjustment.
    Hope you get it figured out. It's so frustrating when you have to fix the machine before you can use it.
     

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